Europe IV: The Final Hour

[Neon Ignition]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/16/angela-rayner-rebecca-long-bailey-labour

Labour moves incredibly quickly to consolidate around Long-Bailey as Corbyn's replacement. So much for a period of reflection, they couldn't more blatantly have missed the point of last Friday's result.

[Neon Ignition]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/16/boris-johnson-will-amend-brexit-bill-to-outlaw-extension

also, Boris plans to write into UK law a legal requirement to leave the transition period at the end of 2020. Gotta lock down that No Deal quick now

[gIzzE]

I’ve rarely seen a post so utterly contemptuous of reality and context. It reads like a column by that Parsons tosspot in the Sun on Sunday. Hats off to Jizzer.

And that attitude is exactly why Labour have 160 seats less than the tories and in some of the Labour heartlands.

Once they start to admit why they lost and being honest with themselves they will start to come back.


It is the head in the sand sort of mentality that is why you have Johnson for two terms.

I said this would happen, I have good friends who are teachers, nurses, doctors, surgeons, police and the one thing that they were all saying is they couldn't vote Labour with that sort of ridiculous spending, and with Corbyn in charge.

Fingers in ears.
Shocked at Brexit.
Shocked at Trump.
Now shocked Corbyn lost.

My only shock is so many are so shocked.

[Shoju]

I think what Lbour party members Alan Johnson, Stephen Kinnock, Jack Straw and Peter Mandleson have been saying about where Labour got it wrong is spot on and they should not be sticking their heads in the sand.
Mandleson illustrates that here in the first few minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3grOfZ7518

[prinnysquad]

Righto. Only a fool would downplay the role of persistent media manipulation and demonisation, alongside outright lies spread through social media. Have it your way, though. Perhaps the clientele of a shoe shop are immune to such vagaries. Half of what you posted was tubthumping, hysterical nonsense anyway.

[gIzzE]

And the media weren't ripping Johnson to pieces?

All I ever saw on social media was the same aimed at the tories.

Boris was ripped to pieces constantly too.



Let's put it like this then.
Did you cast your vote on what the media was saying to you?


Which bit of what I put do you class as lies created by the media?

[prinnysquad]

The words.

And no, the media weren’t ripping Johnson to shreds. The disparity of positive to negative discourse in the media was heavily skewed favourably towards the Tories. Based on research by Loughborough University, I believe.

All the drivel about ‘anti-U.K.’ and ‘anti-business’, for starters. It reads like the grandstanding of someone who has a massive chip on their shoulder that’s been carved by utter rubbish thats been stated so many times over the years, it’s fiction masquerading as fact.

[gIzzE]

Half of what you posted was tubthumping, hysterical nonsense anyway.

Which half?

I would be interested to hear you dissection?

[Asura]

And the media weren't ripping Johnson to pieces?

All I ever saw on social media was the same aimed at the tories.

In fairness, while I saw plenty of lambasting the Tories, it was all on social media. I saw comparatively little on the news media. Buuuut I'm willing to concede that may just be the specific media I consume.

Did you cast your vote on what the media was saying to you?

Don't be ridiculous. This doesn't even merit an answer, and you know it. This is "sealioning".

But to be clear, no, no-one does this. Just like "no-one" ever buys a BMW after seeing a BMW TV advert... But BMW still do TV adverts.

[gIzzE]

The words.

And no, the media weren’t ripping Johnson to shreds. The disparity of positive to negative discourse in the media was heavily skewed towards the Tories. Based on research by Loughborough University, I believe.

Oh please. Behave yourself.

Get your red blinkers off for a second.



Corbyn, Rayner, Abbott, Thornberry do more damage to the Labour party the longer they are given air time.

The BBC have a total left wing bias, but even they were seeing through this party. CH4 right biased? Yeah right. Sky News is arguably more anti Brexit than CH4.

[gIzzE]

Don't be ridiculous. This doesn't even merit an answer, and you know it. This is "sealioning"..

But why is every one else so stupid that even if there was media lies, they fell for it, but not him?


This is what I can't stand about this country at the moment, people looking down their noses at others choices and saying "well they only think that way because they are not as intelligent as me."

That arrogance is why so many are so shocked.

[prinnysquad]

I’ll thank you not to take that patronising and condescending tone, in your usual passive-aggressive manner that’s come to characterise these threads.

Andrew Neil and Laura Kuenssberg are Tories. They are also flagship presenters. The latter has been reprimanded for lying about Corbyn. The BBC do not have a left-wing bias.

As for your comments in that long rant, frankly, I can’t be bothered at the moment. I’ll be quite happy to another time. Maybe when the blinkers are off. I’ll start with the comment that ‘the press didn’t do anything’ and take it from there.

[gIzzE]

I’ll thank you not to take that patronising and condescending tone, in your usual passive-aggressive manner that’s come to characterise these threads.

Andrew Neil and Laura Kuenssberg are Tories. They are also flagship presenters. The latter has been reprimanded for lying about Corbyn. The BBC do not have a left-wing bias.

As for your comments in that long rant, frankly, I can’t be bothered at the moment. I’ll be quite happy to another time. Maybe when the blinkers are off. I’ll start with the comment that ‘the press didn’t do anything’ and take it from there.

Oh the irony.

I wasn't the one aiming comments at anyone personally. I was summarising what people had told why me they had not voted Labour and what people on LBC etc. had said.

You came on and started saying what I had said was hysterical nonsense.

I look forward to hearing what you think I said that was wrong.


The press didn't cause Labour to lose.
All press is biased, always have been always will be. That is a good thing. You get to chose what press you read and watch, and most will watch the press who align their views with their own. It is good to try and watch those with opposing views of course.
But I was shouting at the BBC most of the time as I thought they were more left biased, watching Andrew Marr and others.
It is funny this same thread on avforums is going on about how left biased the BBC are and how Boris needs to do something about it. Haha



What is the alternative to an open press with bias?
State run press, and that is not what we want.


Sorry if you think I am aggressive, I'm just a realist, this current shower of **** Labour party have really pissed me off. When they elected Corbyn as leader it was obvious it was going to put them out of being any real opposition for years and years.
If people saw that instead of singing "Oooooh Jeremy Coooooorbyn" we might have a better country for everyone.

Shame you can't be bothered to reply. I only asked you to pick out one thing that is a lie and convince me why I am wrong, just one thing?

I'm not sure why you are taking it personally? If you listen to long term Labour voters it is what they are saying, it is their reason for voting Tory, whether you listen to people you know, LBC with James O'Brien, Nick Ferrari, Majjid Nawaz, Shelagh Fogarty, Ian Dale, the same is being said by all. You can't say "it is all lies" as it is coming from those who voted.
Not listening to them is why Labour are all but finished in their current form.

[gIzzE]

This is a good article from Huw Edwards, I think this sums up where we are at currently perfectly...

Our specialist editors are in a league of their own: they are employed to analyse and explain. They can be highly critical of what's going on or they can take a more positive view of the success of a particular strategy or individual performance. That's what they're paid to do. They sometimes upset people with their analysis. Hard luck. It's not 'biased' just because you happen not to like it. And here we have the real poison of the social media age: there is a refusal to entertain an alternative point of view; there is a desire to embrace only those sources which confirm your own 'worldview' or 'groupthink'; in short, it's 'biased' if it challenges your own bias. It's unhealthy and profoundly damaging.

I am guilty of that myself, and in the last few years I have made a real effort to be aware of when I am doing it more. It has made me question myself far more.

[prinnysquad]

I’ve already told you. The press DO do ‘something’. The negative approach towards Labour is saturation compared to the Tories. The research is there. Look it up.

Corbyn a misogynist? Racist? Anti-UK? Anti-business? Labour are Far Left? It’s silly nonsense. Lazy, pejorative terms that have been used to demonise, but don’t actually correspond to reality.