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    If the McCann's case is in any way one of negligence every parent in my parents generation would have been criminalised. The person or persons involved in the child's abduction are the only guilty parties.

    Going to a pub/bar/restaurant for a couple of hours leaving children asleep in a locked hotel room is not negligent. Its, obviously, more risky than if you stayed in, barred the doors and sat up all night with a baseball bat ready to repel all boarders but the potential risk was minimal. They were just horribly, horribly unlucky.

    I'm a child of the 60s and early 70s and with the Hindley/Brady child abductions and murders were fresh so that sort of thing was in the back of every caring parents' minds. My own parents always made it clear to me and my younger brother and sister always to get their permission and tell them where we were if we were going out alone (from the age of 6) even if it was just over the road to the newsagents to buy a comic or kick a ball around with our friends.

    Warning about not talking to strangers, not accepting sweets, drinks or anything else from them and definitely not getting into the vehicles of anyone we didn't know were drummed into us. Run away and tell a policeman or other responsible adult what had happened if somebody tried to force you to. That's what we were told and I remember it to this day.

    But that still did not stop them going into a pub for half an hour leaving a 7, 5, and 3 year old alone at home or locked in a car in the pub car park. Long before the age of 11 it didn't stop them allowing us out with no adult supervision to the local park and recreation grounds to meet those friends of a similar age.

    That was almost a daily occurrence during the school holidays. On occasion we'd even cycle miles into the countryside alone and as long as we were back at the required time there was never any admonishment or worry.

    We even knew the local town perv who we nicknamed (now considered non-PC) "The Queer", a middle aged bloke in a blue nylon raincoat, worn whatever the weather, who could be seen regularly near the two local play/sports grounds in the area. He would follow us or other kids between them. He was so obviously dodgy it was a source of amusement for me and my friends when he turned up: 'Oh oh, its The Queer'. But we always knew to give him a very wide birth because he was just the type of person we had been warned about. I could identify him from police mug shots to this day 50 years on.

    This was normal parenting back then and nobody tut-tutted let alone criticised it. I had one school friend aged 7 who, with his 5 year old brother, commuted to school on their own 20 miles by train with a mile walk to catch a bus every day.

    Threats to kids are probably no higher than they were back then but some parents have now become so risk averse they cotton wool their 'babies' until they are 'adults' and they're often not learning the important lessons my generation did. Add to that elements of society so disapproving and able to express and publish that disapproval so easily its all become a spiral of paranoia to the point if you put your child 'at risk' however small, its seen as your fault if something happens.

    No it is not.
    Last edited by fallenangle; 04-06-2020, 13:50.

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      Originally posted by fallenangle View Post
      Going to a pub/bar/restaurant for a couple of hours leaving children asleep in a locked hotel room is not negligent. .
      I'm sorry what? I'm calling utter BS on that - leaving two 2 year olds and a 3 year old unsupervised in an unlocked holiday villa whilst you go out on a piss-up is absolutely negligent in every definition of the word.

      adjective
      failing to take proper care over something.

      They had a choice, there was a crèche, they had zero need to leave their kids unsupervised.
      Last edited by MartyG; 04-06-2020, 21:23.

      Comment


        Yeah, it absolutely is. Not something my parents ever did in the 80s or 90s, let alone the 2000s.

        Comment


          And talking about neglecting responsibility, "Grant Shapps, the transport secretary, will take the afternoon press conference, the spokesman said. The questions will come from regional media, not national media."

          My regional media does stories like this - so I'm sure the question will be probing.

          Scrutiny is a word for others it seems.

          Comment


            Probably on one hand but I can recall instances as a kid of being left alone with my sister, once in a hotel room for an hour, locked room though. My own kids though, I barely trust them alone to step outside the living room to get them a drink for 10 seconds Not a chance I'd risk them

            Comment


              News updates: Shapps says face coverings to be compulsory on public transport; Sharma met Johnson and Sunak day before showing symptoms; Sturgeon says R number in Scotland between 0.7 and 0.9

              Emergency debate on Monday about overturning the utter failure of Mogg's physical voting system that after a single vote has seen MP's panicked that they may now be infected with COVID. If Alok Sharma tests positive for the virus Boris Johnson may need to go back into self-isolation again


              But the immunity of the herd!

              Comment


                Originally posted by Neon Ignition View Post
                https://www.theguardian.com/politics...t-updates-news
                Emergency debate on Monday about overturning the utter failure of Mogg's physical voting system that after a single vote has seen MP's panicked that they may now be infected with COVID. If Alok Sharma tests positive for the virus Boris Johnson may need to go back into self-isolation again


                But the immunity of the herd!
                You can't make it up

                What a joke.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Neon Ignition View Post
                  Probably on one hand but I can recall instances as a kid of being left alone with my sister, once in a hotel room for an hour, locked room though. My own kids though, I barely trust them alone to step outside the living room to get them a drink for 10 seconds Not a chance I'd risk them
                  Different generations, different perceptions of risk.

                  As said the rise of the risk averse parents has spiraled since the 70s with each new generation more paranoid than the last with the tyranny of the social media feeding both unreasonable fears like that and the self-righteous, condemnatory attitudes that now appears to be the norm.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Neon Ignition View Post
                    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...t-updates-news
                    Emergency debate on Monday about overturning the utter failure of Mogg's physical voting system that after a single vote has seen MP's panicked that they may now be infected with COVID. If Alok Sharma tests positive for the virus Boris Johnson may need to go back into self-isolation again


                    But the immunity of the herd!
                    Johnson would be delighted to self-isolate, it'd give him another break from getting his arse handed to him in PMQs.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by MartyG View Post
                      It is intriging and there's not much to go on other than witness statements. However, the results of the dog searches are highly indicative there was a dead body in that appartment - that is the most anyone can say with any certaintly, well other than the child went missing on the 3rd May, the company was operating by 13th May and after the first year has assets of £1.8 million.

                      That the McCanns hired publicists, PR teams, extradiction lawyers, set up a limited company whilst doing very little searching, refusing to cooperate with the Portugese authorities struck me at the time as pretty odd behaviour and it still does. Not something many parents of missing children have done, that's for sure. The whole operation felt like an exercise in misdirection, much as we see in the current political climate.

                      It seems unlikely it'll ever be properly resolved without a confession from whoever was involved happening.
                      Could you imagine if the truth ever did come out & it was an accident in the apartment that killed her & they covered it up.
                      The public backlash would be legendary.

                      I still remember this Meme from back in 2007 when it happened...for some reason I saved it in my Photobucket account...go figure



                      Neil

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by fallenangle View Post
                        If the McCann's case is in any way one of negligence every parent in my parents generation would have been criminalised. The person or persons involved in the child's abduction are the only guilty parties.

                        Going to a pub/bar/restaurant for a couple of hours leaving children asleep in a locked hotel room is not negligent. Its, obviously, more risky than if you stayed in, barred the doors and sat up all night with a baseball bat ready to repel all boarders but the potential risk was minimal. They were just horribly, horribly unlucky.

                        I'm a child of the 60s and early 70s and with the Hindley/Brady child abductions and murders were fresh so that sort of thing was in the back of every caring parents' minds. My own parents always made it clear to me and my younger brother and sister always to get their permission and tell them where we were if we were going out alone (from the age of 6) even if it was just over the road to the newsagents to buy a comic or kick a ball around with our friends.

                        Warning about not talking to strangers, not accepting sweets, drinks or anything else from them and definitely not getting into the vehicles of anyone we didn't know were drummed into us. Run away and tell a policeman or other responsible adult what had happened if somebody tried to force you to. That's what we were told and I remember it to this day.

                        But that still did not stop them going into a pub for half an hour leaving a 7, 5, and 3 year old alone at home or locked in a car in the pub car park. Long before the age of 11 it didn't stop them allowing us out with no adult supervision to the local park and recreation grounds to meet those friends of a similar age.

                        That was almost a daily occurrence during the school holidays. On occasion we'd even cycle miles into the countryside alone and as long as we were back at the required time there was never any admonishment or worry.

                        We even knew the local town perv who we nicknamed (now considered non-PC) "The Queer", a middle aged bloke in a blue nylon raincoat, worn whatever the weather, who could be seen regularly near the two local play/sports grounds in the area. He would follow us or other kids between them. He was so obviously dodgy it was a source of amusement for me and my friends when he turned up: 'Oh oh, its The Queer'. But we always knew to give him a very wide birth because he was just the type of person we had been warned about. I could identify him from police mug shots to this day 50 years on.

                        This was normal parenting back then and nobody tut-tutted let alone criticised it. I had one school friend aged 7 who, with his 5 year old brother, commuted to school on their own 20 miles by train with a mile walk to catch a bus every day.

                        Threats to kids are probably no higher than they were back then but some parents have now become so risk averse they cotton wool their 'babies' until they are 'adults' and they're often not learning the important lessons my generation did. Add to that elements of society so disapproving and able to express and publish that disapproval so easily its all become a spiral of paranoia to the point if you put your child 'at risk' however small, its seen as your fault if something happens.

                        No it is not.
                        Ahhh, the good old days, when you locked your kids in the car while you were in the pub and they were on first name terms with the local paedo!

                        Comment


                          I remember a big story back in the early '80s about a single mother who left a sick 10 year old alone in the house with his 5 year old sister and who knows where the older brother was half the time. As a result of her negligence, the 10 year old was able to hide an alien in the house and then they got chased by the FBI and I didn't cry because my mum told me that ET was just feeling a little poorly but he would be fine.

                          Comment


                            They made that into a film anarl!

                            Comment


                              So the reports coming out are that the German suspect in the abduction of Madeleine McCann is Christian Brueckner, a sex offender and drug trafficker who is in jail for the rape of a 72-year-old pensioner.

                              Now, awful as he sounds, and granted my knowledge mostly comes from Law & Order SVU ( ), the thing about paedophiles is they're sexual attracted to children, not OAPs and generally stick to their typologies.

                              Calling it now - this is a dead end.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by MartyG View Post
                                So the reports coming out are that the German suspect in the abduction of Madeleine McCann is Christian Brueckner, a sex offender and drug trafficker who is in jail for the rape of a 72-year-old pensioner.

                                Now, awful as he sounds, and granted my knowledge mostly comes from Law & Order SVU ( ), the thing about paedophiles is they're sexual attracted to children, not OAPs and generally stick to their typologies.

                                Calling it now - this is a dead end.
                                Scumbags move in circles with other scumbags though. Perhaps they want him to name others. Who knows. I suspect its a dead end though. We will never know what happened to her.

                                Comment

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