Was vilifying violence instead of praising violence a mistake?

[ascensionaquila]

You may be aware that bullying since villyfying violence has increased at
an exponential rate.

Add to this right now - LOCKDOWN this has futher accellerated the
graph of cases of bullying dramatically.

The bully's enjoy a world where they can 'perpetrate' and there really isn't
anything that would be legal to desuade them. Asthough the changes made in society
lately have not been thought out well, that we have designed a world where pain
can be caused and not able to reprise or prevent in any way shape of form, seems
a 'ill thought out design' of society.

In the olden days the way a bully was dealt with and stopped bullying for
good was giving them a 'good beating' as it were.

But since this perfect system of maintaining a fair, meaningful and bully free society
switched on the idea that it's wrong to commit violence to a bully. That
in any scenario the violent person is simply in the wrong and should be shunned for
being part of a tried and tested system of a peaceful society.

Now that violence is seen not as a virtue but a sin.

Bullying has been rising at an exponential rate. With no means to pursuade a bully
not to do it. There is nothing anybody has ever invented that has anything but a
temporary affect on a bully. Desuasive measures and checks often become further
tools with cleverness that the bully can add to their repetoires.

The design of the supposed 'progress'...
seems to a victim perhaps 'ill thought out by design'.

So instead of spreading unpeace should be consider progressing to a state where
it's possible to desuade bullies as you say 'using the method that is tried and tested
to make life fair for all with perfect success'.

Whilst in comfort caring may feel a bridge too far. Imagining what it feels to
be on a bully's daily bullying list, how they try to farm the pain of others
as their food. It's not something anybody in their right mind would say that sounds
o.k to spend all day paralyzed in fear, discomfort at the hands of a society that
doesn't care but even builds more technologies to give more power to bullies.

Nonsense? of course everything can appear nonsense, particularly it's so 'convenient!'
and 'fun efficient!' to consider 'most things' as nonsense. The thing is it makes more sense
to those that have been there. Men in ivory towers have an easy life to know nothing
and remember to keep it that way - plausible deniability. Sometimes rich men suffer
tragedies out the blue, that given a choice in comfort they never cared when they
read about happening to others, despite such, stare expectantly and with hopes.


Laughing in comfort making flimsy posts feels good man.

I remember being bullied to my wits end once amazing how long it can go on for too and the cost to
contain it, restrain it, send it on it's way. Didn't like it.

Maybe you like being bullied and this sounds offensive? we know about this. Everybody is different. But all want to be pleased. huh

[QualityChimp]

It's a bit early.
I'll read this again later.

[gunrock]

A bit rambly on the OP, but I think bullying in adult life is probably more pervasive than ever. By that I mean workplace bullying, bullying in adult education, bullying by the neighbours or local community, even bullying at the school gates by groups of Mums who take a dislike to other Mums (usually around perceived differences in class or money - i.e. snobbery).

I don't do social media other than LinkedIn, but even there, a so-called professional networking platform, I see sniping and bully-tendencies. Game forums can sometimes descend beyond disagreement into people shiyite-posting after every post that their "nemesis" writes. Get a couple of people joining in and just like that, you've got what looks like and possibly feels-like bullying.

Not sure what has happened in the last 20 years, tbh. Violence is almost never the right answer, but there's something to be said for "if we can't agree to disagree, let's take it outside". People who say the most horrible and spiteful things to you, for no particular reason, tend to not want to go though with their threats when challenged and it can sometimes get them to leave you alone, without ever having to get physical.

[Zaki]

Bully = shots?

[Zaki]

It's a bit early.
I'll read this again later.

You haven't had your 3am coffee either?

[QualityChimp]

Are you saying: "Punching is better than not punching, because not punching causes bullying and bullying is worse than punching"?

If so, I don't agree with that statement.

I think we should work towards tackling both physical and verbal violence.

Physical violence is a bit easier to see because it usually leaves a mark, but bullying is harder to track.

This is where we work together to stop it. Standing by whilst others abuse somebody is almost as bad as being the perpetrator.

[Cepp]

A bit rambly on the OP, but I think bullying in adult life is probably more pervasive than ever. By that I mean workplace bullying, bullying in adult education, bullying by the neighbours or local community, even bullying at the school gates by groups of Mums who take a dislike to other Mums (usually around perceived differences in class or money - i.e. snobbery).

I don't do social media other than LinkedIn, but even there, a so-called professional networking platform, I see sniping and bully-tendencies. Game forums can sometimes descend beyond disagreement into people shiyite-posting after every post that their "nemesis" writes. Get a couple of people joining in and just like that, you've got what looks like and possibly feels-like bullying.

Not sure what has happened in the last 20 years, tbh. Violence is almost never the right answer, but there's something to be said for "if we can't agree to disagree, let's take it outside". People who say the most horrible and spiteful things to you, for no particular reason, tend to not want to go though with their threats when challenged and it can sometimes get them to leave you alone, without ever having to get physical.

Just be ready to go through with it if they take you up on the offer!

Violence is more a last resort type of thing imo but there are times when its needed.

That in any scenario the violent person is simply in the wrong and should be shunned for being part of a tried and tested system of a peaceful society.

Is this really that common though? Outside of garbage teachers trying to maintain the status quo? I think in general, most people are OK with bullies getting their comeuppance.

[Dogg Thang]

I would challenge the idea that bullying is worse now than it has been. We definitely have online bullying and that's a major problem and there is a lack of accountability attached but I don't honestly think that, overall, bullying is worse. Not even close. A lot of behaviours were just taken as part of the deal in schools and the workplace in years gone by that just aren't acceptable any more. I haven't even read the initial post because a glance at it told me more than I cared to know but the premise right at the top needs to backed up hard and then a direct correlation needs to be shown for this idea to have even a shred of merit.

[Neon Ignition]

Education and improved parenting standards would probably do more to address the existence of Bullying than any amount of tackling of it when faced with it directly.

[Hirst]

I think it's difficult to explain to kids that bullying is bad when the upper tiers of government are full of bullies.

[gunrock]

[MENTION=3144]Dogg Thang[/MENTION]: perhaps you haven't lived in a **** town, worked in London-based Investment Banking or dropped your kids off at school much! Obviously, my experience is just that, it's mine and not yours but there are tons of examples of microagressions, that even here, in the conflict-averse polite society of Denmark, I could spool out.

Of course, it could just be me and my family, as we're the common element in all this!

Alternatively, you might live somewhere nice... or maybe you could be in the bully crowd and not on the receiving end of it?

[MENTION=6808]Cepp[/MENTION]: Always. At the risk of sounding dramatic, I'm not much at fighting, but I have a lifetime of experience that tells me that bruises fade and cuts heal way faster than your pride, but that also cow-towing to unreasonable people who threaten you with violence in the workplace because they think you're soft, means you have to keep avoiding, running away and moving on. Especially when it's not because you're soft, it's because you try to treat others like you'd like to be treated.
I accept that some people don't like me and I probably don't like them, in those cases I try to be professional and work as amicably as that allows, but it seems aggressors have trouble with that and if they can't intimidate you out of the job, they undermine you instead. Sometimes they win, sometimes they get seen for what they are, but the truth is most managers would rather avoid dealing with these situations and sometimes its easier to kick you instead of them.

[Dogg Thang]

[MENTION=278]gunrock[/MENTION] I'm not saying you haven't experienced bullying. What I'm saying is that I haven't seen anything to show that bullying is worse than ever. These are not the same thing. It's like a victim of assault saying that violent crime is worse than ever - it's not a claim that can be made without way more information. Even on anecdotal evidence alone, unless you also lived in the past, you have nothing to compare.

So the whole premise of that first post makes a statement that, as far as I've seen, is yet to be backed up. That's part one. Part two is then making any kind of correlation to vilifying violence - and that's a long way from actual causation. That's even just to see if it warrants a discussion.

I'm not in any way undermining your own personal experiences, only the first post here.

[Cassius_Smoke]

I don't even have an opinion on this.
What I will say is I feel so bad for all the people who are in abusive relationships during lockdown. Trapped in a house with some POS. Awful.

[gunrock]

Hi [MENTION=3144]Dogg Thang[/MENTION], no caveats needed. We are having a discussion amongst adults and (hopefully) taken with good humour and in good spirit

On the question of objectively making comparisons along a timeline and declaring a decline or increase of bullying along that timeline, I agree it is not possible to do, based on anecdotal evidence. However, I am 50 and have worked professionally, full time in the field of IT for 32 years, which is generally considered to be longer than a generation (https://isogg.org/wiki/How_long_is_a...ides_an_answer), so you could say correctly I have lived in the past. Thus on empirical evidence I can say that from the start of my career, there was significantly less bullying than I have experienced in the last 10-15 years. This is not just me, I have as a mentor, on several occasions been asked advice by my mentees on what to do in situations which were clearly to me, acts of bullying (sometimes by bosses, sometimes by groups of individuals, sometimes singular individuals).

Of course, correlation is difficult to pinpoint but as I have grown in my career, perhaps I have a greater attack surface ( (who says I'm fat ). Thus at the start of my career, a snot-nosed oik, I was less of a perceived threat to someone else than now, when I have greater seniority.

Also maybe, the incidents of bullying now carry far more gravitas, as I have much more to lose, family to support, mortgage to pay, etc.

However, what I can tell you is that in my opinion, society has become crueler and more brazen about being obnoxious or rude and I have felt that. Incidents and microagressions I have witnessed and experienced in the last 10-15 years, are things that people wouldn't have said or done in the late 80s and 90s when I started work for fear of looking or sounding an idiot or an utter dick. Nowadays it seems the gloves are off.

[JazzFunk]

I'd say the bullying/'bullying' has ramped up where I work, been at the hosp 12yrs now and it seems The Management are starting to be more draconian and seem to be telling undermanagers and supervisors to treat people like shid.

It's almost verging on fascistic, at certain points, like they're trying to make everyone feel disposable. It's the first time in twelve years I've seen it get this bad and it irks me no end, seeing the way a lot of my colleagues get treated.

Instead of being praised for working in the epicentre of where the covid cases come, instead a surliness is gradually replacing it. It's like they're really trying to grind folk down and demoralise them. Everyone can see it.

But this is backfiring. Especially now they've taken my colleagues on B Floor's break room away. They're supposed to walk around or stand and keep out of sight between jobs for eight hours, it's nuts, beggars belief, they're really treating them like shid and using the covid rules to bash 'em down.

They needed people desperately for overtime in the week for a big move and nobody took it (demoralised over room being taken away) so the managers had to get stuck in and break their fingernails. It backfires when you treat peeps like shid, innit?

I'm lucky cos they know I graft my arse off on the bins and they leave me and the team to it cos we do the job RIGHT and they know we do. And if anyone has a go at me, I know I work harder, better, faster, stronger, cleverer, handsomer than they and they just stop after that and let me do my job, and very well.

It's getting bad and the morale is getting low. But what goes down must inevitably come back up.

Don't worry, play your games and enjoy your little life and we'll all get thru this shid together.