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America & World IV: Trump's Taxing Day
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Biden announces his COVID relief plan which includes:
-Direct payments up to $1,400 and increasing unemployment benefit to $400 per week till September
-Increasing the minimum wage to $15ph
-$350bn in state and local aid
-$170bn for K12 local schools and higher education
-$50bn for COVID testing
-$20bn for vaccination programmes and more.
Trump’s impeachment in the House triggers a trial in the Senate, which McConnell says can’t begin until Senate is back in session
10 Republicans would need to support the package to pass it, so unlikely thenLast edited by Neon Ignition; 14-01-2021, 23:09.
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I understand that Trump cannot now attempt to pardon himself due to this 2nd impeachment. Not sure if this is true, but if so, what's the betting that - purely out of jealous spite and because he looks set to get clobbered from all angles - he won't sanction any of the remaining pardons he was planning on doing for his criminal accomplices?Last edited by Golgo; 15-01-2021, 09:37.
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There's still nothing stopping Trump pardoning using his pardoning power, other than the risk of civil lawsuits. The impeachment doesn't stop this, people are wrongly interpreting Article II section 2 which says the President is authorized to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, "except in cases of impeachment".
The impeachment does prevent him from pardoning himself for the insurection (for which he's been impeached), but doesn't stop him pardoning himself for anything else, or all of the riotors his friends and family for anything.
There is the more general question of whether a US President can pardon themselves at all - the general consesus appears to be no, due to the base premise of law that no one can be their own judge and jury, but this has never been tested so there is no precedence for it.Last edited by MartyG; 15-01-2021, 09:41.
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Whatever about pardoning others, which is already open to abuse, giving the President the ability to pardon themselves for things seems like totally welcoming corruption and crimes in office. And can you pardon someone who hasn't yet been convicted of a crime? I guess so but that also seems weird.
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Originally posted by fishbowlhead View PostSo will get away with everything? Gotcha.
He's already not getting away with everything - he's lost his PGA tour date as it's been taken away from his golf course - Trump likes the prestige, taking that away from someone who's so narcassistic is going to sting, hard. He's losing his big financial donors, which will hurt his campaigning. He's been kicked off most of the social media platforms which really limits his ability to reach people.
And it's likely that trying to pardon himself will be legally challenged and won due to the "judge/jury" fundamental of law. Even if he is able to pardon himself, it will NOT stop prosecution outside the Federal and the district of Colombia jurisdiction, or civil prosecutions - and as has already been established, there are six such prosecutions waiting for when he leaves office currently (sitting presidents cannot be charged outside of impeachment).
In terms of pardoning someone who's not yet been convicted, yes, you can (Gerald Ford pardoned Nixon in just this way). The president cannot pardon for crimes that have not yet been committed though, so he cannot give someone blanket immunity for all time.
Like it or not, Trump is still entitled to due process.Last edited by MartyG; 15-01-2021, 10:35.
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Originally posted by Dogg Thang View PostWhatever about pardoning others, which is already open to abuse, giving the President the ability to pardon themselves for things seems like totally welcoming corruption and crimes in office. And can you pardon someone who hasn't yet been convicted of a crime? I guess so but that also seems weird.⚖️ Do you need a great lawyer? I can help! https://legaleagle.link/eagleteam ⚖️Self pardons are uncharted territory...because even Richard Nixon wouldn’t d...
Pretty good video on the topic.
This person did some other videos too on the same topic; the power exists for various justifiable reasons, but I think he concludes that yes, it's really quite open to abuse, just presidents rarely have. Clinton, notably, also made some very questionable pardons at the end of his administration (this isn't a "both sides" thing; Clinton and Trump's conduct aren't really comparable).
I think the Trump administration has exposed how there are many aspects of the presidency that are held together with duct-tape; i.e. there are guidelines-not-rules and "gentlemans's agreements" that should really be law.
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