Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

BPX053: Olympus Has Fallen

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    BPX053: Olympus Has Fallen

    We've discussed the idea of Donald Trump's place within American history around a year ago when he was defiantly speaking out against the ongoing impeachment trial that was taking place against him. Bullish about his own innocence and the coming second term he expected to be preparing for whilst even touting the idea that he believed that rather than be removed he should be given a third term in office, Trump continued as his own best promoter - to himself he stood as the unassailable peak of American Presidencies whilst for many others he stood at the other end of the scale.

    Twelve months on we arrive here, his final day in office having (despite his claims to the opposite) having definitively lost the Presidential election to a man Trump claimed was inept with dementia and yet also shrewd enough to have elaborately conspired at a national level to steal the result from him. But with the arrival of this final day we finally have the book end on the four year Presidency of Donald Trump, his full official record now available to review, though we can expect many tales and more to emerge from the White House in the coming years as an opposition presidency takes seat and numerous court cases arrive on Trump's door step.

    With this four year term now complete we can cast an eye on Trump's accomplishments to decide:

    Is Donald Trump the worst President in American history?


    It's obviously a key note that this is the question, the question of if he's the best President never really being put forward by anyone in the last four years. But there are three key areas we need to first consider when establishing the criteria for consideration.

    Criteria One - The Competition
    The ten other US Presidents who are commonly considered for the dubious honour of overseeing America's darkest chapters of office are often:

    James Buchanan
    America's 15th President in the mid-1800's, Buchanan failed to act over the polarised issue of the time of Slavery. His inaction would pave the way for the Civil War and one of the countries worst recessions.

    Franklin Pierce
    Buchanan's predecessor, Pierce was also a man of inaction with his few movements mostly focused on limiting the progression of the anti-slavery movement. He also oversaw the unpopular annex of Cuba.

    Andrew Johnson
    One of the few impeached Presidents, Johnson didn't hold the protocols of office too tightly and so the public didn't take him seriously as a leader. He spent much of his time arguing with Congress.

    John Tyler

    Tyler abused his power, using it to veto key decisions intended to save America from collapse as he held a troubled sense of what constituted American values. In time his own party kicked him out.

    William Henry Harrison
    Dying just one month into his term, Harrison set out an agenda that he never saw carried out but his unfulfilled plans would lead America into a constitutional crisis lasting 125 years.

    Warren G Harding
    Often failed to carry out his Presidential duties because he was busy pursuing his interests in women. He was also a corrupt politician, giving prominent roles to friends with his downward slide only stopped by his own death two years into office.

    Chester A Arthur
    A popular President at the time, Arthur oversaw huge expansion with the US however his plans were too shortsighted resulting in the country overstretching itself and by the time his term was coming to an end his house of cards collapsed and America fell into the Great Depression.

    Herbert Hoover
    Hoover inherited the Great Depression just as it hit at the start of his Presidency and as the cornerstone issue at the time Hoover bore the brunt of responsibility and blame for the nations failure to pull out of it as fast as the people needed it to.

    Richard Nixon
    A popular President at the time, Nixon's term is none the less defined by the Watergate scandal and years of successes washed away with his time ending with his own resignation.

    George W Bush
    Bush found his early Presidency thrust into an unexpected direction when 9/11 took place and a baying public demanded action and retribution for the attack on their own soil that had devastated New York. The result was the commencement of two wars started under false pretences and with it a sealed reputation.


    Criteria Two - In Trump's Favour
    The last four years saw Trump carry out a flurry of Executive Orders and initiatives, of those he oversaw the most common successes of his term are considered to be:

    -Installed roughly 25% of all current lifetime appointed circuit court judges and three Supreme Court judges ensuring his influence will outlast himself
    -The launch of Space Force, the sixth branch of the military.
    -Tax reform
    -The bipartisan passing of the First Act law allowing for criminal justice system overhaul helping to address mass incarcaration
    -Oversaw the death of ISIS leader Abu Bakar al-Baghdadi

    Criteria Three - Trump's Failures
    These four years have also seen Trump criticised for a number of failures including but not limited to:

    -Widening the divide in American society whilst being supportive of white supremacist figures
    -Tear gassing US citizens for a photo-op
    -Devastated America's global image and standing with its political allies whilst attempting to bring its connections closer to its political enemies
    -The withdrawal of the Paris Climate accord
    -Human rights breaches including the separation of over 5,500 families and keeping children in cages in conditions which has killed at least six
    -Destabilising peace efforts in the Middle-East
    -The only President in American history to by twice impeached, first on the count of corruption with his involvement in abuse of power with blackmailing the Ukraine and the second for inciting insurrection resulting in the lives of Congress itself being at risk.
    -Overseeing and contributing to the highest number of American citizen deaths since the second world war due to his handling of the Coronavirus pandemic.

    -The freefall of the US economy that now looks to a very long term and slow recovery following Trumps attempts to take credit for Obama's economic recovery era and his own COVID-era failure to manage the situation resulting in economic disaster.
    -America entering a state of national debt at its highest levels since WWII
    -The near complete erosion of the integrity of the role of President of the United States, the number of documented lies issued by Trump during his one term of office now totalling over 30,500 and coordinating direct attempts at electoral fraud


    When the dust settles and the pages of history unfold where will Donald Trump stand in the pantheon of US Presidents?


    If Trump is the worst president, what particularly marks him out against the worst of the past and if not who was worse and why?
    10
    Donald Trump is the Worst President in American History
    0%
    10
    Donald Trump is Not the Worst President in American History
    0%
    0

    #2
    Difficult for us to judge effectively from outside of the US. We haven't lived with his policies and changes.
    I would say that he is regarded as a joke president that walked the knife edge of dangerous. He was a bad influence on the UK.

    Comment


      #3
      Criteria Three - Was in Home Alone 2

      Comment


        #4
        He did get rid of the TPP;

        Comment


          #5
          Criteria Three: was badass in THE APPRENTICE (US version). And apparently created lots more job benefits for African Americans. Or so I've heard some black African Americans says online. And my black mate at work from Meanwood.

          Also, has the better hair. And would probably have not sold the USA entirely to China.

          And not much war, either.

          I'm a bit of a Darcus Howe but ya gotta admit the man is a ledge, despise him or not. Not sure what Joe is but he always looks like he's got loads of hands up his arse...

          Comment


            #6
            Trump fails on all counts: he fails on competence with an unwillingness to learn or listen ala Johnson, he fails due to corruptness and criminality ala Nixon and he fails on inaction allowing the country he's supposed to have protected to come to harm ala Arthur. A number of presidents failed on one of these sectors, but Trump ticks every single box.

            But most of all Trump is the worst president the US has ever had because he didn't care about the job or the country or the constitution, the only thing Trump cared about was himself.

            What we think we know about how bad he was now, is going to look like a dust mark compared to what we will know in ten year's time when all the secrets he's been able to hide under the pretense of national security are unearthed.
            Last edited by MartyG; 19-01-2021, 19:24.

            Comment


              #7
              Too much one-sided thinking goin' on here. Both sides are equally as corrupt, let's not pretend here.

              Anyway, I'm not falling out witcha, opinions are like anuses and I'm much cooler than an anus...if not Uranus.

              Forgot, now. Is Uranus hot or cold?

              Comment


                #8
                Wasn't his tax reform skewed in favour of the rich/ultra rich and screwed up the middleclass and poor?

                Also, the Space Force...it's basically what the USAF did under a new banner. And le'ts no forget how he withdraw from the Open Skies treaty, the INF treaty, scrapped the Iran treaty, and further destabilised the Middle East by recognising Jerusalem as Israel's capital.

                But I get you, it's not you can make a 1460 point-long list in the negatives...

                Comment


                  #9
                  I'm not sure it can be claimed both sides are equally corrupt anymore after the events of the last 4 years, Democrats would never push it the way Republicans have

                  Comment


                    #10
                    But there's one point still outstanding:

                    Is Uranus hot or cold?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Nothing here is even a both sides issue. There are 11 presidents being discussed. If you want to ‘eleven sides’ it, go ahead but trying to make it about ‘both sides’ is having a discussion that doesn’t really relate to the thread.

                      In all honesty, I don’t know enough about the competition. Basically any US president outside of my lifetime I don’t know all that much about. So I can really only make a statement about presidents in my life and the answer there is, well of course he’s the worst. I mean, it’s not even a close call. Even Bush Jr, a man who really I thought could not be beaten, was left lagging behind Trump’s dust. And really Marty has covered the reasons why. The US presidency is not something that sits well with me. Every US president serves the whims of their donors, serves business interests over the interests of people or the planet, will engage in endless wars costing countless lives, will interfere regularly in the governing of foreign countries when there is wealth at stake. But at the core of Trump was a brazen air of just not caring about a single other person than himself. A misery and hatred. He is a low human being. A straight up asshole. And on top of all the usual stuff that comes with being president, being a complete grade A asshat made him incompetent, self-serving and very dangerous.

                      So yeah, I don’t really know enough about those older presidents but I’m giving this to Trump anyway. May he rot in insignificance from here, if not in a prison cell.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Dogg Thang View Post
                        In all honesty, I don’t know enough about the competition. Basically any US president outside of my lifetime I don’t know all that much about. So I can really only make a statement about presidents in my life and the answer there.
                        If you have Audible, I can recommend The History of the United States, although it's not specifically a biography of the presidents of the US (it goes back well before that and through the Boston Tea Party, the Civil War and formation of the Union) - it's quite the tombe, but if you want an understand of the US through the times, it's a very good listen.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I think for me one of the key indicators is that over the last few years I've seen plenty of people online cite Presidents they thought of as worse but never providing a satisfactory answer as to why. Take the President's of the 1800's a common thread of discontent surrounds the issue of slavery which is fine and correct to dislike but viewed within the contextual prism it actually took place in it's also unsurprising that it was a long and drawn out issue for the political classes given all that was at play.

                          Nixon... he's always a go to but quite honestly at this point the comparison of him and Trump is like having the Judge look at Nixon's record and call him a...




                          I think even with a rudimentary knowledge of past Presidents you can see where they drew lines in their actions even if it was at a point beyond the acceptance or liking of others. Trump has utterly destroyed those lines, powered through and only not gone further thanks to being stopped from a second term and from the few remaining constraints on his powers. On the flip side I don't see anything about the past President's failures that Trump himself wouldn't have been the same if not worse for.

                          Perhaps the closest comparison on record would be Bush but had 9/11 happened under Trump's watch it's laughable to consider that he wouldn't have been like pouring gasoline on a fire by comparison. I think you can look at past presidents and see some of them as disappointing, failures, corrupt, inept etc but Trump stands alone where the word that most accurately reflects his record, his views, his actions, his intent and his aims were he able to be even more unshackled by limits as being Evil.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            So, basically, we all know fuc-all, really?

                            Well, hello. Been here a loooooong time, nice to see some new starters.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              *GETS MASSIVELY ENGORGED KNOB OUT AND SPUNKS ALL OVER THE THREAD!!!!!!*

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X