United Kingdom VII: Taking Pride in Your Success

[MartyG]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...latest-updates
Keir Starmer has said that there is no case to be made for the UK rejoining the EU.

Flag waving jingoism wins you elections now, got to roll with the times.

[Asura]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...latest-updates
Keir Starmer has said that there is no case to be made for the UK rejoining the EU.

Honestly, I hate to say, but he isn't wrong.

I wanted to remain, and voted to remain. I think it's lunacy and corruption that have led us to this point. Yadda yadda yadda.

But I don't know if a course-correction is really a possibility now. If we had another referendum, would we re-join? Maybe, but it'd still be, like, 50/50.

I think the only way for the UK to rejoin the EU, realistically, is a longer-term approach where we foster more positivity about the union, so we'd get to the point in 2035, if we voted again, the response would be an emphatic yes.

This might be assisted by Russia, when Putin's grip slips and they inevitably march tanks through more of Eastern Europe, and people realise that there's more to international unions than worrying about petty crap.

The problem isn't that we're leaving the EU. The problem is that we have around 25% of the population who believe all the crap that was put out to convince them it was a terrible thing (putting aside the 2-3% of Leave voters who did so either to get rich or because they had legitimate grievances, and the 5% that were genuine racists).

Then there's what recent elections have suggested about whether democracy is viable in the information age; part of me is losing faith in that.

[Dogg Thang]

I think the only way for the UK to rejoin the EU, realistically, is a longer-term approach where we foster more positivity about the union, so we'd get to the point in 2035, if we voted again, the response would be an emphatic yes.

This might be assisted by Russia, when Putin's grip slips and they inevitably march tanks through more of Eastern Europe, and people realise that there's more to international unions than worrying about petty crap.

Russia's involvement in successfully destabilising parts of the western world would tell me that their tanks will roll precisely when they know the unions are fragile enough to fall. The union was strong and it was necessary. But both the US and the European countries have been weakened in the last five years and largely down to little more than a successful attempt to control narrative and sow seeds of doubt. Through Facebook and other platforms. The UK is well on its way to being a full on corrupt fascist state and I won't be surprised to see other countries follow. When things get messy, they won't be looking to form unions. They'll have ridden so far up their nationalistic flag poles that they'll be going to war to validate some misplaced memory of empires long gone.

[wakka]

In response to Asura: Yeah, I also think it's the right call. The Tories want to keep the leaver/remoaner thing going because they thrive on division. It's unhelpful and it's unconstructive but it works to get them in power.

I could see us rejoining the EU somewhere down the line, but not for a long, long time.

[Asura]

In response to Asura: Yeah, I also think it's the right call. The Tories want to keep the leaver/remoaner thing going because they thrive on division. It's unhelpful and it's unconstructive but it works to get them in power.

Much of this has to do, I think, with making a choice.

Do you to be the small group sitting in a corner, expressing self-assured smugness from the sidelines, and the ability to go to sleep knowing you're right as the world burns around you? Because I find a lot of the remainers I know are in that group. They've just folded their arms, want everything to be a catastrophe so they can yell "I TOLD YOU SO" in 2025.

I can understand that perspective, but it's also problematic because if allow a catastrophe to happen, it's going to hurt people, even if you eventually get your way once the dust clears.

I hate that we're leaving the EU, but I'm trying to make the best of it, for myself, my family and my workplace. That's really all I can do.

[Dogg Thang]

Nothing bad can happen from just getting on with it when bad things happen.

[MartyG]

We can just write of £5.6 billion in lost exports. No biggie. I'm sure that was just a January glitch.

Of course there's a reason for rejoining the EU, to say there isn't is BS. When you make trade harder (which leaving the EU has done), you do less trade which is and will continue to be detrimental to GDP - not a 2025 thing, it's a right now thing.

All career politicians are the same, it doesn't matter what rossette colour they wear, Starmer just like the rest of them, wants to appeal what he believes will garner the most votes, rather than what's factual.

[Cassius_Smoke]

Russia's involvement in successfully destabilising parts of the western world would tell me that their tanks will roll precisely when they know the unions are fragile enough to fall. The union was strong and it was necessary. But both the US and the European countries have been weakened in the last five years and largely down to little more than a successful attempt to control narrative and sow seeds of doubt. Through Facebook and other platforms. The UK is well on its way to being a full on corrupt fascist state and I won't be surprised to see other countries follow. When things get messy, they won't be looking to form unions. They'll have ridden so far up their nationalistic flag poles that they'll be going to war to validate some misplaced memory of empires long gone.

If it turns out Russia has planned and orchestrated all of this then to be honest I can't help but feel some respect. I mean to silently tug strings and get all the ducks lined up, taking years, is nothing short of genius.

[Dogg Thang]

I believe you are supposed to take it on the chin, Marty.

CS, almost sounds like you think that's a crazy conspiracy rather than something suspected and reported from many sources over the course of recent elections including Trump's and Brexit.

[Cassius_Smoke]

I believe you are supposed to take it on the chin, Marty.

CS, almost sounds like you think that's a crazy conspiracy rather than something suspected and reported from many sources over the course of recent elections including Trump's and Brexit.

I suspect there is some truth in it. But I also think the UK is more then capable of ****ing themselves up without help.

[MartyG]

I believe you are supposed to take it on the chin, Marty.

And turn the other cheek? Only cheek I'll be showing is my shiny white ass.

Brexit was and always will be cretinously stupid and capitulating to the lie that it isn't, is equally so.

You can still get on with things and hold that position, the two are not mutually exclusive.

[Dogg Thang]

I suspect there is some truth in it. But I also think the UK is more then capable of ****ing themselves up without help.

Oh that's true. You have a point. And yeah, it's not like I think everything has been plotted out like a Bond villain. But they are a common factor popping up over and over whenever something looks like it will contribute to destabilising the west. So at very least, I think they are taking advantage of divisions and stoking them up behind the scenes.

[wakka]

And turn the other cheek? Only cheek I'll be showing is my shiny white ass.

Brexit was and always will be cretinously stupid and capitulating to the lie that it isn't, is equally so.

You can still get on with things and hold that position, the two are not mutually exclusive.

Totally with you - but at the same time I would love to see someone in power who isn't the Tories. Banging the 'repeal Brexit' drum is not going to do that.

[Dogg Thang]

In reality, I think the UK has a hell of a lot of house cleaning to do before it considers playing with others again anyway.

[MartyG]

Totally with you - but at the same time I would love to see someone in power who isn't the Tories. Banging the 'repeal Brexit' drum is not going to do that.

Banging the same drum doesn't make things better either - same politics, different colour, the difference measured in gnat danglies.