United Kingdom VII: Taking Pride in Your Success

[Golgo]

without...taking it as an opportunity to review the curriculum and figure out just how much of it is actually of any real benefit to people in the real world.

I agree with a lot of what you said there, but thank **** we didn't 'take the opportunity' to do this. The notion that all education must be directed towards 'real world' benefits, i.e. to vocational training and turning young people into biddable workplace drones, is truly execrable.

[Asura]

When we had the first lockdown, we should have been adapting the schools at that point for their return. Individual desks with screens, classrooms moved into large open areas like sports halls, teaching to be done on shifts to allow reduced classroom sizes, hiring more temporary teachers. We did more-or-less nothing acting on the basis that kids don't spread the virus (which everyone knew was nonsense) and that disrupting teaching in any way will completely ruin the lives of children, without any consideration for things like catch-up learning or taking it as an opportunity to review the curriculum and figure out just how much of it is actually of any real benefit to people in the real world.

After I got to about 14, most of my education seemed to revolve around finding out the exact volume of shapes, working out how to do things manually that you'd do on a calculator and trying to find meaning in the tedious works of the world's most overrated playwright. Play within a play? Wish I'd been playing Sega Rally.

To be fair, so much of this involves investing in schools, with the government never get behind, and why would they? None of them attended a "normal" school.

The government does paltry things and suggests they're doing something; really they should double the school budget and enormously ramp up education, because a lack of education is honestly the root of so many problems.

[Hirst]

I agree with a lot of what you said there, but thank **** we didn't 'take the opportunity' to do this. The notion that all education must be directed towards 'real world' benefits, i.e. to vocational training and turning young people into biddable workplace drones, is truly execrable.

Yeah, I shouldn't have said "real world", that's my mistake really. What I meant was things that are more relevant to the person in question in what they might either find useful or will engage with in some meaningful way. I can appreciate that not everything you learn will be fun and not everything will be useful, but it seemed like the vast majority of the information we had to absorb was both dull and useless for anything other than passing an exam. I think the overwhelming majority of pupils in my school just wanted to get out and never go back.

[cutmymilk]

This is being attempted right now in Wales and Scotland. Look up the Donaldson report. In 5 years, education will be more about problem solving and less about memory.

[Golgo]

Yeah, I shouldn't have said "real world", that's my mistake really. What I meant was things that are more relevant to the person in question in what they might either find useful or will engage with in some meaningful way. I can appreciate that not everything you learn will be fun and not everything will be useful, but it seemed like the vast majority of the information we had to absorb was both dull and useless for anything other than passing an exam. I think the overwhelming majority of pupils in my school just wanted to get out and never go back.

Soz if I over-reacted there, it's just that I fear we lose so much when education becomes fixated on economic use-value and turning young people into tax-payers (which I realize now you weren't saying anyway). I see it in university too, including research, which increasingly needs to have 'pathways to economic impact' (i.e. commercial partners) before it can get funded. Darwin and Einstein probably wouldn't have got funding for their research if they were going for it today.

[Dogg Thang]

This seems right.

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[cutmymilk]

The Debenhams news is truly sad. In every city they have a massive presence. I cant say much as I rarely shopped there but it was always great for Christmas presents and browsing. It also gave more kitschy brands a chance to have a little space in retail. Many other shops will now go as this is another major reason not go go to a high street any more.

[kryss]

This is being attempted right now in Wales and Scotland. Look up the Donaldson report. In 5 years, education will be more about problem solving and less about memory.

Just as long as "discovery" maths doesn't become a thing.

[Hirst]

Soz if I over-reacted there, it's just that I fear we lose so much when education becomes fixated on economic use-value and turning young people into tax-payers (which I realize now you weren't saying anyway). I see it in university too, including research, which increasingly needs to have 'pathways to economic impact' (i.e. commercial partners) before it can get funded. Darwin and Einstein probably wouldn't have got funding for their research if they were going for it today.

No problem! We're actually on the same page it seems. I would rather education was used to give people some decent life skills (I think people who don't have supportive parents are at a huge disadvantage there) while also figuring out what they want to do with their life and helping them build on that, rather than the current obsession of measuring success with scores and training people to score highly in tests at the expense of everything else. I think the government aren't worried that the education of children will be ruined, they just don't want an inevitable drop in the figures to make them look bad. Possibly also a fear of disrupting the status quo - some kids will inevitably flourish in a remote learning environment over classroom-based.

It's a bit like when they cracked down on kids going on holiday during term-time - there was a study that while it likely had a marginal effect on test scores, being in a different environment was overall beneficial in most cases due to educational possibilities (learning about different places) and social benefits. Test scores won.

[QualityChimp]

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[Soundwave]

Neil, the idea last year that things have to get back to normal is exactly why things never got back to normal.

Yep. And the other side of the coin, which is that the ballpark easing date they have in mind is really quite far away, and could result in uproar from some quarters if they announced it. They might have taken the position that they will be better able to manage the public mood by remaining as vague as possible.

Neil, I know lockdown sucks mate, but it's a case of short term pain, long term gain. I'm personally actually really relieved that the restrictions are firm and the easing date a long way off. We can save an absolute ton of lives by holding it down for a few more months while at least the most vulnerable get the jab.

I see it as quite a different situation to 2020. Although we are in lockdown, vaccinations are now in progress, and the end feels very much in sight.

I'll just agree to be in the minority here then

I'm not coping with lockdown by a long ****ing shot so some clear idea of when this ****ing **** show will be over is about all that keeps me from going total mental
Not knowing **** is the worst

Neil

[saif]

OK, then work to July as the point when things might be opened up a bit.

As for last year. The government and their enabling press are lying if they think things are going well on some of the fronts. With the amount that is in the population, it will be a long time to go to a reasonable level - and as we will exit the lockdown before it is reasonable, it will be a bit longer.

It is utter ****e, but it is also (sadly) pretty predictable.

edit: Not in anyway to belittle what people are going through. I want to leave lockdown - being a lockdown sceptic is supposed to mean you don't think it works. Sadly, the kind of people that say they are in the media are usually just selfish people and like to spread the idea that others are lockdown fetishists. But this is utter ****e.

[Neon Ignition]

It's been clarified that every Debenhams store will permanently close down, that'll leave a crater sized whole in the Trafford Centre that won't get filled soon.

[Cassius_Smoke]

It's been clarified that every Debenhams store will permanently close down, that'll leave a crater sized whole in the Trafford Centre that won't get filled soon.

Yeah the Bullring in Brum will have 4 stories of nothing to fill.

[Asura]

Sad for the staff, but at the same time, I can't remember the last time I bought something there. Probably a Christmas gift in ~2002.