Liverpool 2010/11 Season Thread

[Super Grover]

If we lose against Lyon, I would think that would be the time to sack Rafa.

There is the argument about not being able to afford his payoff, but to the owners, the value of the club will be significantly less to potential investors when we have a manager in place who has pretty much left us with nothing significant to play for (eg. CL/Prem). Yes, a new manager will still not have much to play for the remainder of the season, but with Janaury only a few months away, it would give them chance to bring in a couple of players who they believe will enhance the squad. Yes, we have no money, so Babel, Veronin, Dossena (and one or two others) could add some funds.

Also, it would'nt suprise me if the players are starting to get a bit dispirited with whats going on at the moment. This may lead to unrest which is certainly what the club doesn't need along with everything else.

But if we did get rid of Rafa, who will take his place? 'The special one', and Martin O'Neil are the ones that spring readily to mind. An outside bet might be Roy Hodgson!!

Not looking forward to tomorrow's and Mondays sports pages in the papers. Grim reading indeed!

At the start of the season we were being touted as serious title contenders, but looking at the table now, its going to be an uphill fight just to make a champs league spot.

Dark days indeed.

[abigsmurf]

Mourinho gets linked to most high profile British manager jobs. Would he go to Liverpool considering how bitter the rivalry between him and Benitez got? Dunno.

[nakamura]

Out of interest does it have to be the highest profile manager? After all plenty of the managers at the smaller clubs often do excellent work under pressure albeit a different pressure to champions league football.

[abigsmurf]

Doesn't have to be but in general, chairmen get less critisism for hiring a European cup winner that fails to hiring a lesser known manager who then fails.

To use the classic quote: "nobody ever got fired for buying an IBM".

[nakamura]

Perhaps its time to take a gamble then. 20 years or so without a league title deserves it as the safe option hasnt worked. If it wasnt for Gerrard over recent times Liverpool would have nothing at all. The CL was a brilliant fluke lead but him as a brilliant captain. I think something drastic needs to be done and soon.

[Supergoal]

Mr Sockochris, Adrock, but you must believe that Benitez has to go though mustn't you? Sooner rather than later.
It's not like this has just been a bad start to this season, but other seasons too. Odd decisions and bringing in more average players than quality players.
Can you honestly see us winning the league with the guy? I've strongly supported him and never slated him, but after that Fulham game I can't hack it any more.

[Super Grover]

Mourinho gets linked to most high profile British manager jobs. Would he go to Liverpool considering how bitter the rivalry between him and Benitez got? Dunno.

There are only a couple of English teams I believe Mourinho would go to. Either Man U, City (now they have the financial clout) and us. There's been tenuous links with us an him for quite a while.

I think he would actually enjoy taking over the reigns and doing better than Benitez. He gets off on stuff like that!!!

I can't see Benitez making the decision to walk himself because ...

a. He probably feels he has got what it takes
b. He's stubborn
c. He loses out on a BIG payout compared to being sacked

It would'nt suprise me if he may start to 'lose the dressing room' if he keeps making strange subs, playing people out of position or even playing some players (Veronin I'm looking at you!).

And people pointing the finger at the owners for our plight is, in some way, quite wrong. They don't chose the tactics, formations, subs. There's teams above us who have spent less on their squads (this is not a fact so I maybe wrong)

I'll finish here as I'm too negative to type anymore!!

[Supergoal]

There are only a couple of English teams I believe Mourinho would go to. Either Man U, City (now they have the financial clout) and us. There's been tenuous links with us an him for quite a while.

I think he would actually enjoy taking over the reigns and doing better than Benitez. He gets off on stuff like that!!!

I can't see Benitez making the decision to walk himself because ...

a. He probably feels he has got what it takes
b. He's stubborn
c. He loses out on a BIG payout compared to being sacked

It would'nt suprise me if he may start to 'lose the dressing room' if he keeps making strange subs, playing people out of position or even playing some players (Veronin I'm looking at you!).

And people pointing the finger at the owners for our plight is, in some way, quite wrong. They don't chose the tactics, formations, subs. There's teams above us who have spent less on their squads (this is not a fact so I maybe wrong)

I'll finish here as I'm too negative to type anymore!!

You're right.

[Jebus]

Mourinho gets linked to most high profile British manager jobs. Would he go to Liverpool considering how bitter the rivalry between him and Benitez got? Dunno.

I personally think he would, but doubt Liverpool could financially afford to pay Benitez off, get Mourinho in AND bankroll the warchest he'd obviously want.

That said, he's a better manager and it'd be a good move for Liverpool.

[mr_sockochris]

Mr Sockochris, Adrock, but you must believe that Benitez has to go though mustn't you? Sooner rather than later.
It's not like this has just been a bad start to this season, but other seasons too. Odd decisions and bringing in more average players than quality players.
Can you honestly see us winning the league with the guy? I've strongly supported him and never slated him, but after that Fulham game I can't hack it any more.

I don't know. On the one hand what you say is right, but on the other hand we've had so many key players missing yet again this season that I think any team would suffer like we are. How well would Chelsea be doing if Lampard was out injured all the time and Drogba was missing the odd game and then not being 100% and not being able to complete matches. Same goes for Arsenal without Fabregas and Van Persie or Utd minus Rooney and Berbatov.

One player Rafa spent big on in the summer, Glen Johnson, made a promising start to the season but has been missing in recent games while the defence in general hasn't really had a decent run of games togther due to Agger and Skrtel's injuries. Again, would Arsenal and Chelsea be doing so well if their Gallas & Vermalen / Terry & Carvalho partnerships were constantly being disrupted by injury? We lost Alonso in the summer which has left a big hole in our midfield while Aquilani, another big money buy, gets fit. What is Rafa supposed to do about that? Should he have spent the money on someone else rather than on an injured player? Personally I can't think of anyone else available that fit the bill.

Reina
Johnson
Agger
Carragher
Insua
Mascherano
Aquilani
Kuyt
Benayoun
Gerrard
Torres

Rafa brought in all those bolded players, and while I'm still not convinced about Insua, I honestly think our first 11 is as good as anyone else, something which was pretty evident in the last dozen or so games of last season where the same players were playing every week and we finished just 4pts behind Utd.

Yes, Rafa has bought some big money stinkers too, but is that totally his fault? Dossena should have been the solution to our left back position, big reputation in the Italian league and a regular for the national squad, but has been dreadful when he has played. Whose fault is this? Babel, a star at the under21 World Cup before we bought him and one of Holland's brightest young prospects and wanted by Wenger at the time, has yet to fulfil his potential 2 years later. Is that Rafa's fault? Maybe. But spending big money on a player like that wasn't a bad signing at the time.

The trouble is finding squad players (specifically Strikers) who are willing to sit out when Gerrard, Torres, etc are fit. Rafa tried that with Keane last year and he sulked after just a few games on the bench. Babel has often complained too about not getting games but when he does he does nothing to warrant being picked more often. Who should Rafa buy to play up top when Torres isn't fit? It's almost impossible to find quality that doesn't want to play every week.

On that note I really wish Rafa had taken a chance with Owen....



Anyway, it's late so I suspect my post is a bit all over the place but my main point is we have good players, Rafa has brought in good players, and when they are playing together we can beat anyone. I'm not saying Rafa is immune to any blame, but we have suffered with injuries to our best players alot this season and when things aren't going well it is those players you need the most. Sacking Rafa is not the answer, we should be supporting him so as to keep our current team together and add quality to our squad in Jan/next summer so when players are missing they aren't missed to much. We don't have the money to spend ?90m on a few players, but Rafa has gradually been adding ?15-20m players to the team (Torres, Masch, Johnson, Aquliani) over the past couple of years and adding a few more would really go a long way to making sure runs like this won't happen again. Also, if we were to get rid of Rafa then you can probably say goodbye to a few of his signings too, especially the Spanish ones...

[mr_sockochris]

Also, I don't think Mourinho would be much of an improvement. The only manager I would even consider would be Guus Hiddink.

[Adrock]

Personally, I dont believe he should go until the end of the season is upon us and we haven't made a Champions League spot. Owen was never gonna come back to Liverpool with the way he ****ed about moving to Real and then Newcastle, all whilst having the opportunity to be at Liverpool.

Also, regarding spending on squads. Over the 5 years Benitez has spent around £200mil and sold £100mil. That makes it £20mil per season to spend extra, for a team looking to win the league thats nothing. Not when there are players at Chelsea and United who regularly sit on the bench who could swallow the majority of that up. Yes he has bought 60 players or whatever, but he also sold 50 or so. He has entirely rebuilt the squad, including young talented players that could make the difference in a few years.

People will always say the argument is Liverpool dont have enough money, but its true, a fact if you like

With what he has had to spend you cant complain about the free buys like Voronin and Degen. People highlight players like Kromkamp, Nunez, Pellegrino, Josemi and Morientes, all of those bar Morientes were cheap or exchanges that facilitated moves and were a gamble that didnt work out. That is what happens when you can only spend a few million. Morientes was 8mil I think, which isnt really that much anymore and he had some stunning pedigree but it went wrong for him.

Benitez is definitely struggling right now, no doubt. I wish to reserve judgment until the end of the season. Champions League earnings have brought in £20mil a season. Funnily enough thats the spending Benitez has had each summer.

Reina
Johnson
Agger
Carragher
Insua
Mascherano
Aquilani
Kuyt
Benayoun
Gerrard
Torres

Personally I'd have Aurelio instead of Insua, then you're on the button for Liverpool's strongest team. This is a long enough post, I could go into the Keane debacle, the back room problems and injuries so far this season but I think we'll leave it at that.

In summing up Benitez has transformed Liverpool into a team regularly competing in the latter stages of the Champions League year on year with a small budget. If he fails to get a top 4 spot this year then, yes, he should go. Until that happens I'll support him to the hilt.

[mr_sockochris]

^id personally play Aurelio too (a great free signing by Rafa by the way), I was only showing what I think is Benitez's first choice lineup. He seems to be sticking with Insua at the moment. He's cost us a few goals this season but he's still very young and only by playing and making mistakes can a player get better...

[Steakman]

A brilliant couple of posts there guys. It's only the last few seasons that we have been able to go out and spend the big money on 1 position at a time, we've had to purchase 4 or 5 average players instead. Sounds like an excuse again but it's true.

Benitez seemed to have lost the plot yesterday but it's always easy to criticise once events have occured. Having said that i really would start to feel more angry if he had subbed torres to save him for the champs league game, i think someone said it earlier but if that was true then i would be happy if he was sacked right now.... hopefully it wasn't!

Clearly alot of confidence probs at the min and it seems a waste to not build on the Utd result which means nothing now. Can see the proverbial **** hitting the fan if we get knocked out of the champs league.

Oh and i think we missed out on a couple of players this year had we have had funds, bith i think we were linked with, Turner and Kenwyne Jones. Not overpriced but quality players imo.

[Flabio]

You pretty much have to beat Lyon now, and with your current set of injuries thats going to be a big ask. I think if you failed the make the knockout stages of the champions league then the board would start to ask questions of the manager, but probably not before then.