SPL - Referees strike

[davesol]

Thought i'd start a new thread about this as it's something that i'd like to have a rant about. It's more a general rant about the attitude of managers to referees than specific to the SPL but suffice to say that I fully support the stance of the refs there.

The attitute of most (if not all but I am sure there are some exceptions) managers to referees / bad decisions is just so pathetic.

It's pathetic because they are directing their anger at the wrong people - It is impossible for referees to get every single decision correct in real time and they should realise that. If they want a higher number of correct decisions then managers / clubs / leagues should be putting pressure on fifa to adopt video referals, not whinging about the ref. It's even worse when pundits join in and start critising "obvious" decisions after they've sat there watching slow-motion replays from several different angles.

It's pathetic because managers completely ignore decisions that went in their favour when they are complaining about decisions that go against them. When someone does point out to them a decisions that went for them they brush it off with a comment like "it's about time one went in our favour". I'm sorry, but if you are happy to accept decisions that go for you then you also need to accept those that go against you.

It's pathetic because managers know full well that when they come out to give an interview that the referee is not allowed any public platform to explain decisions that they made. They can say what they want without a ref being able to defend themselves.

It's pathetic when managers call for referees to be demoted to a lower division because of a single bad decision. Refs do get marked on performance and consistently low scores do get them demoted (or promoted for high scores). I wonder if they would accept a ruling that if one of their players were to make a single mistake in a game then that player has to go on loan to a lower league team for the next week.

Personally I would like to see the introduction of video referals. It works well in other sports and generally increases the level of respect shown towards officials - if a player does not agree with a decision there is no need for them to complain to the ref about it, they simply refer it.

I'd also like to see the media take some positive action on this. Next time MOTD are interviewing a manager who complains about how decisions always go about them they should read that manager a list of recent decisions that went their way. It would be interesting to see the reaction.

Ideally of course managers would simply grow up a bit and start acting in a more mature manner towards referees - can't see that one happening though.

Well, rant over for now. Glad I got that off my chest

[vanpeebles]

I say sack em all and bring some in from abroad.

[davesol]

I say sack em all and bring some in from abroad.

the managers?

[abigsmurf]

I think there's been some appauling refereeing in the Premier league this year (how to make a English ref have a string of awful performances: send him to an international tournament) but that Celtic incident was appauling.

Ok bad decisions happen but to then lie about the decision to the officials above them... The assistant quit because he was disgusted but the ref who actually did it got off without punishment.

The problem with refs is that they're not held (publically) accountable for decisions. They almost never even explain the thinking behind their decisions and they're almost never shown to have any negative effects from awful performances. There would be a lot less anger towards refs if they explained the thinking behind decisions in statements or even to admit they'd made a mistake.

Making them untouchable deities who are always right (even when they're wrong) just breeds resentment.

[davesol]

The problem with refs is that they're not held (publically) accountable for decisions. They almost never even explain the thinking behind their decisions and they're almost never shown to have any negative effects from awful performances. There would be a lot less anger towards refs if they explained the thinking behind decisions in statements or even to admit they'd made a mistake.

Making them untouchable deities who are always right (even when they're wrong) just breeds resentment.

I agree, but i don't think that either of those are the fault of the refs, hence my annoyance at the flak that they get.

The fact that they do not publically explain decisions is not the referees decision, they are not allowed to do so.

Making them "untouchable deities" is fifa's fault - in cricket / tennis / rugby etc etc there is not this assumption that referees / umpires are always right. everyone (including the ref) accepts that they get most decisions correct and some decisions wrong and the wrong ones are sorted out by video referals. fifa's refusal to allow this use of technology and their inisitence that the referees decision should always stand is what's driving it. Anger at incorrect decisions should therefore be directed at fifa, not the referee.

[abigsmurf]

The problem is that the "wall of silence" does nothing but fuel conspiracy theories.

Take Anders Frisk. After he made a visibly awful decision and it was claimed by Mourinho that he chatted with the Barca manager, all that resulted was a "Don't you dare question us or our refs" and a Mourinho ban.

A year later, Frisk releases an autobiography which confirmed everything Mourinho had said was correct. Couple that with the fact that questionable refs and Chelsea in the champions league seem to go hand in hand and you're breeding nothing but resentment.

If Frisk had said what he said in his biography, it would've diffused the situation. Banning Jose just made it worse.

But meh, Seb Blatter seems to think the game is the same as it was 30 years ago.

[Kieran76]

At the end of the day it's football, mistakes will happen. I am fed up of people with access to 15 odd cameras, slow motion and other technical aids complaining about split second decisions. Yes, I know there are times when refs, who are human lets remember, make poor errors in judgement, but the idea of refs being made to pubilically explain every decision seems unfair to me. I think goaline technology is a good idea and is something that could be implemented by the end of next week. I can't see any other real use for it though.
We laugh at players making huge mistakes and missing open goals but when a ref makes a mistake we want blood.

[Team Andromeda]

It's about time the ref went on strike and stood up for them self's

At the end of the day it's football, mistakes will happen. I am fed up of people with access to 15 odd cameras, slow motion and other technical aids complaining about split second decisions. Yes, I know there are times when refs, who are human lets remember, make poor errors in judgement, but the idea of refs being made to pubilically explain every decision seems unfair to me. I think goaline technology is a good idea and is something that could be implemented by the end of next week. I can't see any other real use for it though.
We laugh at players making huge mistakes and missing open goals but when a ref makes a mistake we want blood.

Spot on post. I think its quite Neil lennon has moaned and moaned about Ref's to cover up his Team poor performances

[Dirty Sanchez]

The biggest problem up here with refs is they are only accountable to two teams, both who have a huge amount to lose if they are ever toppled from the two horse race the SPL is.

They have such leverage they are allowed to get away with murder. You may notice they don't bitch and moan about the refs when they are in the European games - they don't have the leveage to do so.

The specific case of the lying/cover-up with that ref is a problem - the ref should lose his position and be sent back to the lower leagues. Tha wasn't a mistake - it was a lie, a fabrication. You simply can't have someone like that in the middle of the pitch, Hugh Dallas has lost a huge amount of respect by not sacking him.

[TBL2260]

The specific case of the lying/cover-up with that ref is a problem - the ref should lose his position and be sent back to the lower leagues. .

He was.

Granted not for very long mind.

Amusingly he felt the need to lie about his decision to reverse a penalty award. A decision that, thanks to video replays, was proven to be spot on. He was right to reverse it, why he felt the need to cover up the initial reason for doing so is beyond me however the fallout from that decision has been ridiculous.

This situation with the refs would have come about eventually thanks to Celtics bizarre paranoid assertion that the SFA are corrupt and that there have been atleast 50 years of institutional bias against them. Which by the way is complete and utter horse ****.

The DM situation is merely being used to further that agenda.

Thanks to Celtic fanning the flames with their guff we now have refs and their families being threatened in their everyday lives and work places. Good job.

The SFA need to support their refs. They need to lay down the law and hammer anyone (Yes that means Rangers, Celtic, Hearts Dundee Utd etc etc) that questions their integrity, if that means touch line bans, points deductions then so be it. They need to introduce a culture of respect from the top to the bottom. No refs, no games. It's not rocket science. Yes refs make mistakes, but so do managers, owners, players, coaches, fans.....

Speaking of lies though, should Neil Lennon be sacked or perhaps demoted to the reserve team coaching for coming out on national radio after the St Mirren game and claiming his players were world class? Because trust me, that was as big a lie as I've heard since I told the wife that no, her bum did not in anyway shape or form look big in that........My point here being that deflection is a funny old game.

On another note though, it'll be interesting to see if foreign refs decide to break the picket lines so to speak........Out of curiosity how would people here feel about that?

[Team Andromeda]

Amusingly he felt the need to lie about his decision to reverse a penalty award. A decision that, thanks to video replays, was proven to be spot on. He was right to reverse it, why he felt the need to cover up the initial reason for doing so is beyond me however the fallout from that decision has been ridiculous.

Wasn't that done to protect the lines Man and to be seen to agreeing with him ? . Don't get me wrong the Ref should have been banned for a year, but I don't think he lied to cheat a Team , also how many Mangers them self's have lied over the years; We're not buying this player (only to buy him) this player is not fit (only to play him) and so on

I blame FIFA for all this mess and not giving them the back up and projection they need , and where Rugby (hell even the NFL) gets most of it so right
The Ref's and the linesmen/women should all have a Mic (so like with Rugby we can hear them) , only the Capitan is allowed to question or query a Ref decision (none of this bunching around and cashing the Ref) any sort of decent to a Ref results in a Penalty to the other side , We should have goal line Tec, in at least, our 2 top Leagues and Lines

I get so sick of managers, players, pundits and fans always blaming the Ref and saying they can do better , well go on then ... REF the bloody game,
only they'll won't. That's anther Area Rugby gets it right, a lot of the former players actually Ref the game.