Tottenham Hotspur FC 2013/14

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Little to add but my agreement to those analyses of the matches and England's performance last night.

There's the possibility he's pacing the team after a long season when in a tournament like this to keep the players fresh for the knockout rounds. But are we really to believe that is what Gareth Southgate is doing or the disjointed performances in every match so far were part of a cunningly wrought plan to fox the other teams into underestimating England? Seems a tad unlikely to say the least. The simplest explanation is what I said earlier here and that he has a group of good and even great players but still has little idea what combination actually works as a team.

I think Portugal look a pretty good bet to go far in this competition because they have that right team and squad mix of old and new players. I'd have fancied Croatia for much the same reason, as well as the Spurs connection of Modric and Peresic, but that's not to be now.

[EJG1980]

Very happy for Radu Dragusin, Romania through to the second round as group winners, great stuff. Thanks to topping the dit: group they get a nice bonus of avoiding a second round match against France. Considering that a draw was enough to put both teams through, their match with Slovakia was a well contested affair that wasn’t a bad watch.

Edit: watched the Turkey vs Czech game last night too, which wasn't always the best but was a good watch thanks to the drama, right up to the last knockings there was a chance of the ten men Czech pulling off a shock win. And after mentioning before that I felt a bit sorry for Georgia for their "so close yet so far" results, I was really happy to see that they got a win over a (much changed) Portugal side to get themselves into the next round, I think they deserved it.

All four teams with a Spurs player involved get through to the second round too, which is good.

After reading before last night's matches that we had about a 70% chance of facing the Dutch in the second round, it turns out we ended up getting Slovakia. One of those "Won't be a walk in the park but you'd be disappointed to lose" type opponents.

If we get through that then our QF opponent would be Italy or Switzerland, and a semi-final opponent one of Romania, Netherlands, Austria or Turkey. While it isn't easy it is definitely a favourable draw compared to what it could have been, so much so that the bookies have moved England back up to favourites to win the tournament!

Saturday: Well, I expected Switzerland to give Italy problems, and given Italy's current state wouldn't have been hugely shocked if they caused an upset, but the fact that they knocked Italy out with such ease certainly was a bit of a surprise.

Switzerland were completely in control and comfortable for the entire ninety minutes, it was pretty much a gentle afternoon stroll for them. Even when playing poorly you can usually expect Italy to fight, scratch, and claw to try and get back into a match, but none of that today.

If England win tomorrow they get the Swiss in the quarters, and that won't be an easy match if the Switzerland that drew with Germany and beat Italy turn up. A couple of results that almost make you forget they were only able to draw with Scotland before those two matches

The Germany vs Denmark game: the offsides I don't mind so much. It's annoying when players are off by a toenail, but they've gotta draw the line somewhere and at least it's just a matter of fact. And in this tournament, at least the offside decisions have been quick with the semi-automatic technology.

The handball rule sucks though. They're not supposed to give it if the arm is in a "natural position", but they nearly always give the penalty if the arm is away from the body, even though there are many times where the arm being away from the body IS the natural position for it to be in! Anderson clearly hadn't stuck his arm out to block the ball, it was natural movement as he ran. Not only that player who kicked it into him couldn't have been more than a yard away, Anderson had no time to react, deliberately or otherwise.

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That Germany vs. Denmark game was a good watch I really enjoyed after the disappointing and surprising Italy vs. Switzerland game. Italy were lack lustre throughout and although with their chances they could have sneaked a draw they deserved to go out.

Agree with what you said about the handball stuff - clearly ridiculous and simply the wrong decision in that case.

There would be a reasonable argument that, using the same criteria ie. unnatural arm position it should be treated as handball if it deflects a direct shot away from an expected goal but that could still cause dissent as to what constitutes 'unnatural'.

I still like the idea that I suggested even before VAR was actually introduced and I've only recently heard has been considered and that is to take the lead from the largely successful tennis' 'Hawkeye' system where the player has three challenges/set and one extra in a tie-break. Give that same option to the manager ie. a limited number of VAR challenges per game and one more in extra-time but not applicable to penalty shootouts.

It would introduce a new tactical/managerial element that might actually add something new and interesting to the game.

[EJG1980]

England vs Slovakia: bloody hell

You have to hope England can do an Italy 1982 style tournament, starting off looking very ordinary and off the pace, just about scraping through at first, then suddenly bursting into life and going on to win the tournament. Very much more hope than expectation though! And I don’t think England vs Switzerland 2024 is quite gonna be Italy vs Brazil 1982.

Georgia vs Spain has been a great match so far, although Spain have just equalised, I was hoping Georgia could hang on to the lead for a bit longer.

At least they got to half time level though, they needed that.

Spain just too good, overpowered Georgia in the end with their constant attacks. Great spirit shown by Georgia though, had their moments (a shame that long range Kvaratskhelia effort in the second half didn’t go in) and can go out with their heads held high considering the gulf between the two teams.

Spain vs Germany QF, that could be a classic.

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England game I don't want to even think about. I stuck with it but right up until that 6th minute of extra time Bellingham goal I was serious thinking of watching something else instead.

Yeah, pity about Georgia. Particularly in the first half they had some very good chances on the counter attack but in the last third they either choked or made completely the wrong decision and the chance went begging. But as you say Spain were just too good in the end.

Spain vs.Germany QF - arguably the best team versus the hosts who are also playing well. Certainly has potential. I think a likely Portugal vs.France or Belgium QF could be a good watch too.

[EJG1980]

France vs Belgium

Not a great match, quite appropriate that the goal that decides it was a scrappy deflection. France deserved to win though, Belgium created so little. Hopefully the Portugal match has a bit more life and excitement to it!

Goalless at half time but a much better watch than the previous match. Slovenia giving a good account of themselves; expect Portugal to find a way through eventually but Slovenia have had some decent moments that suggest a shock result isn’t totally out of the question, but they need better composure in the final third.

Also using the option on the iPlayer to listen with 5Live commentary, and maybe it’s partly due to the novelty but I prefer it.

Extra time! Second half wasn’t as good as the first, but still engaging seeing if Slovenia could keep them out and maybe do something on the counter (Sesko needed to to better with than one on one chance). Great defending by Slovenia, gotta admire the work-rate and determination.

What a great penalty save that is from Oblak! Wasn’t sure it was even a penalty, the attacker ran into the defender’s leg more than the defender fouled him. Ronaldo crying for missing a pen, still with a half of ET to go? Bit much, not exactly Gazza realising he’d be banned from the final.

Arrrggghhhh, how do you miss that Sesko?? An absolute gift of a chance chucked away.

Penalty shootout! Slovenia deserve this chance to get through, brilliant effort from them.

Wow, 3-0 to Portugal in the shootout, three saves in a row from the Portuguese keeper, that doesn’t happen often! Heartbreak for Slovenia after all the hard work they put in. Great drama. Sesko will be replaying that extra time miss over and over in his head for a while.

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The first game I made the mistake of watching all the way through but I was looking forward more to the second anyway.

Better but by midway through the second half I was so disappointed with Portugal I watched something else instead going back to the match during advert breaks and lucky(?) enough to catch the Ronaldo penalty miss and the embarrassing blubbing.

I couldn't believe it was going into extra time. I thought Slovenia would dramatically run out of steam or the (initially) card happy referee would load the dice by sending one of their defenders off or one or the other would score on counter attack or from a corner/free kick. But no. So I watched all of extra time drama and of course the penalty shoot out which was very entertaining as they often are.

Sorry to see Slovenia out after all that stalwart defending but also that Portugal don't look like tournament winners to me now. I think France will do them by the odd goal or two so I've reduced my expectations of that game being as good a contest as I'd previously hoped.

[EJG1980]

The only two teams who have looked really good (aside from less powerful teams punching above their weight like Austria, Romania, Switzerland) have been Spain and Germany. I would be surprised if the winner of the Germany vs Spain QF doesn't go on to win the whole thing.

Away from the Euros, a new Spurs signing, young defensive midfielder Archie Gray from Leeds:



I think I've seen him play once, in the Chelsea vs Leeds FA Cup match last season, and he looked very good (especially considering his age) but I'd have to rely on the views of others for how good he is.

From everything I've read he was pretty much the highest rated young talent outside the top flight, being monitored by all the big clubs, etc.. Lots of journalists / footballers on Twitter saying it's a really good signing for Spurs and that lots of other big clubs will be ruing missing out on him in a few years.

When he was covering one of the Spanish group stage matches and talking about Lamine Yamal, Ange made the comment that a manager's instinct is to slowly ease a youngster into the team, but that increasingly the attitude is becoming "if they're good enough, they're old enough" and putting them straight in.

Given those comments I wouldn't be surprised if Gray does slot straight in to the team. His main rivals for the spot would be Bissouma (who had a very good start to the season but was very up and down after that) and PEH (who is strongly rumoured to be leaving) so there's not a nailed on starter ahead of him at the moment.

Joe Rodon has gone in the opposite direction, making the permanent move to Leeds after his loan there last season. Good move for him.

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I was going to say something earlier about Ange as pundit on ITV: I was quite surprised at how good he is in that environment. Too often in Spurs' after match TV interviews he seems 'hunted', eyes down not looking at the camera or interviewer and seemingly severely depressed if the result has gone badly and not much better even when they've won.

Here he is far more animated, engaging and adds intelligent analysis to the discussions; he comes over very well I think.

[EJG1980]

I wasn’t too surprised as I watched his pre-match press conferences a lot last season and they’re very similar to how he is as a pundit, very relaxed, joking with the journalists, giving detailed and insightful answers to questions, etc.. Night and day from his much more subdued post match stuff.

I think once it’s after a match, where he’s been so invested in the game, shouting at the players for 90 minutes, feeling worn out, he’s probably just thinking ”Sod this, I wanna get home!”

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Netherlands vs Romania was a good match. Netherlands finally turned up and put in a really good performance and deserved the win. Romania weren’t terrible but they didn’t have the cutting edge that the Netherlands had up front, and Netherlands were just too good for them on the day.

Another good performance from Dragusin though (the Dutch second goal the only slight blemish on him for the whole tournament) really raised his profile with the tournament he’s had. Genoa might be thinking "what if?" as if they hadn't sold him to us in January for €25 million, I think they would have got a bigger fee for him this summer after this tournament. Good for us though!

A shame Radu is going home, but on the plus side it means Mickey VDV gets through to the next round. I just realised he’s our only representative left, as the other three all went out in the second round. Romero and Lo Celso still going well in Copa America though, three wins out of three for Argentina in the group stage.

The Austria vs Turkey match has started like a house on fire, hopefully they sustain it for the whole match. I was thinking Austria would go through but they’ve got some work to do after that early Turkish goal.

Really good match with both teams going for it, and a brilliant start and finish. What an amazing save that was by the Turkish keeping in the dying seconds. Well done Turkey, should hopefully be a decent match between them and the Netherlands in the Quarter-finals.

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I thought I wouldn't bother with the Austria vs.Turkey match but I started it anyway and glad I did because I stayed with it throughout.

Indeed that save right at the end by the Turkish keeper was like the cherry on the cake - an exciting watch right to the end.


Friday Edit

Neither match really grabbed me so I dipped in and out of both of them then watched the whole of extra time.

The Spanish winning goal, a header, was particularly good but otherwise even the pundits seemed underwhelmed by both games. Saying the best thing about them was the 'world class defending' is pretty much shorthand for dull.

Let's hope the England game is better, much better.

[EJG1980]

That is weird that your edit isn't showing up. I occasionally see stuff like the name or avatar of the latest post on the thread being wrong, but luckily none of my posts have gone missing yet (not that it would be a great loss if they did ).

Spain vs Germany: a decent match, but not up to the classic level I was hoping it would be. It did build quite nicely as it went along though, Spanish goal was a good one, Germany's last minute equaliser was exciting (and deserved as I think Spain took their foot off the gas too much in the last 20 minutes) and then you had Spain doing the same to Germany with their own dramatic late winner in extra time.

France vs Portugal: another mostly dull match involving France, although Portugal did do their bit to help with the dullness too. I think I remember thinking that on the balance of play France probably just about deserved to go through, but I haven't really retained too much memory of the match at all!

So a Spain vs France semi-final, you would have to massively favour the Spanish based on what we've seen so far, they look clear favourites to win the whole lot.

One fly in the Spanish ointment though is missing players with two of Spain's first choice defenders suspended and Pedri injured, which maybe France could exploit, although it's not like their replacements will be cloggers. And France do have a knack under Deschamps for often not looking that great or convincing but managing to get all the way to finals of tournaments anyway. But, I will be surprised if it's not Spain in the final.

England vs Switzerland tonight could be a potential snooze-fest, but hopefully one where we wake up and find England have got through

Hopefully I'm not jinxing it, but based on their matches so far, Turkey vs Netherlands could be a cracker, really looking forward it.

Edit:

You have to hope England can do an Italy 1982 style tournament, starting off looking very ordinary and off the pace, just about scraping through at first, then suddenly bursting into life and going on to win the tournament. Very much more hope than expectation though! And I don’t think England vs Switzerland 2024 is quite gonna be Italy vs Brazil 1982.

Or, perhaps, forget the bursting into life part, just keep scraping and skanking our way through all the way to the title

A change in formation, it was a little bit better but it didn't make a huge difference as the real problem is the slow tempo and cautious nature of the way Southgate wants them to play. You could see that Switzerland goal coming and once again we survived thanks to one player having an individual great moment rather than anything Southgate has instructed the team to do.

One thing Southgate does have in abundance though is luck, whether it be from very kind paths through tournaments or individual moments of brilliance bailing England out from his cautious and uninspiring tactics. On the other hand no matter what I say or think he can say "Four tournaments, three semi-finals, you're welcome," and that's a tough record to argue against!

Edit 2:

Well that was very enjoyable. A shame that Turkey have to go home, they’ve really been great to watch during this tournament. Plus I’d have liked them to face their ultimate challenge, seeing if they could keep up their run of exciting matches with England as an opponent!

Happy for Mickey VDV getting through to the semi-finals. He’s had to settle for coming on as a sub in every game so far, but he played a big part in getting the Dutch through with his excellent goal line clearance. Put in a couple of good tackles, headers, and clearances too.

Tough to call which way the England vs Netherlands semi-final will go, though I think the Dutch have had more impressive spells in matches than England have and they’ve been better at putting the ball in the back of the net. I think England have been less leaky at the back though.

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I agree: best quarter-final game was the one I wasn't going to watch but then did. The second half in particular was hugely entertaining.

England win as a result of Saka taking the initiative and slotting home a fine goal and on well taken penalties. A better performance for sure but as those pundits who were being honest pointed out it was still pretty ordinary, dull stuff most of the time.

Just hope Southgate was watching the Netherlands vs.Turkey match because one very obvious thing was that the Dutch do not like wingers and don't handle good crosses very well. If he can get HK and Ivan Toney on together and where they should be in the box there are goals to be had from that Dutch defence.

I'd dump Foden for Palmer on left wing/midfield and unless he is pulling his weight sub Bellingham for Bowen after sixty minutes on the right behind Saka leaving Walker to concentrate on defensive duties, tackling Van De Ven if they try to use his speed for wing back forays rather than just for last ditch defending.

[EJG1980]

Really good first half between Spain and France in the first semi-final, although I think the commentators were going slightly ott about just how good it was

What an amazing strike that was by Yamal, imagine being 16 years old and doing that. I remember him coming on against Spurs in a pre-season friendly against Barca last summer when we were 2-1 up, and he was superb and was the main reason they turned the match around. What an incredible year for him.

A bit silly of the German fans to boo Cucurella for his unpunished handball against Germany in the quarter-final, it wasn’t his fault that the ref / var didn’t give it! Besides, they should be booing him because he’s a Chelsea player

Hopefully the second half matches the quality of the first.

Good second half although it didn’t have the high spots of the first. Just like against Germany in the previous round I thought Spain took their foot off the gas too much in the second half and let France get on top, but unlike Germany France couldn’t conjure up an equaliser. They had about three decent chances that they should have done better with, but they didn’t create a nailed on scoring chance.

Tough to see either England or Netherlands beating Spain in the final, but you never know. They have switched off the in the second half of matches twice now, but on the other hand, you have to be losing to get them to do that!

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Copa America update: Argentina have reached the final so a chance for Romero and Lo Celso to grab a winner's medal. Bentancur could join them in the final as tonight is Uruguay vs Colombia in the second semi-final. If Colombia get through then it'll be former Spur Davinson Sanchez trying to stop Romero and Lo Celso.

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England involved in non-boring match shocker! Definitely our best 45 minutes of the tournament so far, it was pretty much all England after the Dutch scored the opening goal, aside from that corner where the Dumfries header hit the bar. Foden has been very unlucky with one shot cleared off the line and his excellent long range effort hitting the crossbar.

I did think we got quite lucky with the penalty decision though. Both players making a legitimate attempt to get the ball, both have their feet as high as the other, I think it's a 50/50 coming together that isn't really a foul either way. If anything I'd say Kane kicks into the underside of the Dutch player's boot more than the Dutch player kicking into Kane, but I don't really think there's much either player can do to avoid contact. Still, you don't turn down gifts, and Kane's penalty was superb, right in the corner.

Ever the pessimistic England fan, my family's half time conclusion is that after boring our way through the tournament so far, the fact that we've finally been enjoyable and looked half decent probably means that this is the match we'll end up losing! Hopefully not, but football does seem to enjoy throwing up that kind of scenario.

Well, well, well, pessimism be damned

Second half wasn’t as good as the first but that was largely down to the Dutch trying to stifle England and stop them from dominating. Credit to Southgate, brought on Watkins and Palmer and they’re the two who combined to get us the breakthrough. Beautiful control, turn and strike from Watkins, a goal worthy of winning the match. And, after many average at best performances, England played well and fully deserved to win the match.

Spain in the final is the hardest possible opponent, and they’ll rightly be favourites. You never know in a final though, a team having an off day, a player coming up with a bit of magic, and you can get an unexpected result. Fair play to Southgate too, no matter what anyone thinks of him or how he sets up the team, two Euros finals in a row, that’s a brilliant achievement. Let’s hope that him and the team can go one better than last time.

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Pretty much all that ^.

The Dutch loaded the midfield in the second half and England were back to their dull, ineffective, slow. cross-pitch passing game for most of it until the subs came on and mixed it up before the Dutch could respond. Right idea but leaving it so late was risky.

It produced a great goal and now we're in the final again so I'm not complaining but I still wished we'd seen more of that first half type of performance in the earlier stages of the competition.

Sunday Edit

Depressingly predictable result but I was hoping against hope I was going to be wrong. Even put a Union flag up in my front window.

Over both halves I'd argue England probably played their best game of the tournament. Problem is that it wasn't good enough and we only started looking dangerous in their last third after the subs came on.

I think HK must have been carrying an injury of some sort (back?) because he was not really himself at all in any game despite receiving the 1 of 6 shared golden boot award.

There's still the World Cup to look forward to in two years time and the possibility England's women might retain their Euro title next year.