Tottenham Hotspur FC 2013/14

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Just watched the highlights on Quest.

Good win for Spurs' B team but even though there was good reason this time to use the, mostly, second choices, I think it risked Spurs not getting the result needed.

Lets face it this competition is the only one we have a really good chance of winning and if Poch, again, puts out a similar second string team against Arsenal and we lose then the decision will be justifiably criticised. Too often he has done that in the League Cup and even the Europa League with the inevitable consequence when meeting quality teams whose managers do not just use it as a testbed and giving under-used squad players a run out.

[EJG1980]

Disregarding everything else, I think last night he had no choice but to rotate, playing the same side twice in 48 hours would have been asking for trouble on the fitness and injury front (especially with matches coming thick and fast, PL again on Saturday, CL on Tuesday).

In general I have sympathy for your point of view but also Poch's point of view. From a fan perspective, I would absolutely love to see the a Spurs captain holding a cup aloft after a final. At the same time, realities of the modern game, if we're offering a new contract to a star player in the summer I think they're more likely to sign if we've qualified for the CL and won nothing than if we'd finished 6th and won the League or even FA Cup.

Whatever Poch does there's an argument to say he's done the wrong thing. "Spurs' best players will leave if you don't qualify for the Champions League, you can't rest anyone for a league match!"... "All players want to actually win things, why are you resting players in the cup?"... "You're playing your best team every single match? They'll be burned out and knackered before the end of the season!"

[fallenangle]

In past seasons it has been a favourite subject of the TV football pundits (strangely often ex-Arsenal and Chelsea players) when talking about Spurs is that they "have to" win some silverware or their best players and even the manager will leave in the summer.

This time I think there is going to be something in that. There is more pressure for success much of it due to Spurs likely failing to get out of the CL group stage. As importantly it is going to be even more difficult this time, with six teams potentially good enough to finish in the Premiership top four, even qualifying for the CL next season.

Players have to be rested; we've seen Spurs run out of steam late in the season more than once recently probably because key players have not been given time off earlier. But there is fine judgement needed here, which is what the manger is there for, he's has to balance that man management against the potential rewards of using the A team. But at some point you have to take some risks and Poch's instinct has often been to save his best for the Premiership, CL and, usually, FA Cup.

However this time I think its is different because they're in the quarter finals and only three wins away from success.

I hate to have to agree with Denis Wise but on Quest yesterday he was pointing out that Chelsea had something like 30 years without major silverware and it was only after winning something that they started having more consistent success. The suggestion is that there is a psychological glass ceiling you need to break through when you've won nothing for decades and once done you get that winning mindset which can lead on to even greater success.

[EJG1980]

Hmm... I'm gonna half agree with Denis Wise, as I don't want to break the universe by having two people agree with him

What he says about a psychological glass ceiling might apply to a team like Spurs, who've had a manager and a core group of players that have been together for a few years, come close a few times (league runners up, a cup runner up, a couple of semi-finals) but not quite got over the line.

It's certainly a possibility that they might start thinking "can we actually go all the way one day?". Equally they may think "Hey, we've just happened to lose close games to good teams, on another day we might have won, I'm totally confident our time will come soon". Only they know what they're truly feeling / thinking.

He's got a cheek saying that was the situation Chelsea were in though They weren't an established group of players who finally broke through a glass ceiling, they were a mid table / relegation fighting team that started massively overspending (and nearly went bankrupt because of it) to add the likes of Zola, Di Matteo, Vialli, etc., to their team. Lo and behold, they started to win stuff.

I don't think players worry too much about the past either. Doesn't matter if a club hasn't won something for a while, I think the individual players will only care about what's happened since they've been there.

[EJG1980]

Phew! Have to say we got lucky today. Wolves were the better side for big chunks of the match and had their finishing been better, who knows?

Up until our first goal it was fairly even with both sides doing well, but then two quickfire goals and we were in control. For about ten minutes Wolves looked a bit shell shocked but they slowly came back into it and started playing well again, and we got our first bit of luck when they had a perfectly good goal ruled out incorrectly for offside that would have made it 2-1 before the break. We deserved to be winning, but it should have only been by one goal.

Our performance levels really dipped in the second half though. Wolves started better and our third goal which should have killed the game was a bit of a sucker punch. Massive credit to Wolves though, 3-0 down and they're still going for it. First penalty that got Wolves back into it, no complaints, and though it was Foyth who committed the foul it was really poor from Trippier giving the ball away where he did. I thought the second penalty was pretty soft but Wolves deserved that bit of luck considering they'd earlier had a good goal ruled out.

Thankfully we managed to hold on and see it out for the three points, and though they pressured us they didn’t really have any clear cut chances after the second pk. Aged me a few years but we're up to fourth! Lloris did well today, after recent criticism, some good saves and clearances at vital moments. Hopefully Dembele's injury isn't serious as we've got a real lack of midfield players: Dier, Wanyama, and now possibly Dembele injured at the moment.

[fallenangle]

Just finished watching it on MotD. Looked like good entertainment and all our goals were very good, particularly Lamela's but Trippier's cross for the second was simply perfect.

Wolves were unlucky not to get something from the match but that's the way the cookie crumbles, we've been on the wrong end of results where we've played well and made more chances. I guess it all evens itself out over the season.

Giving away two penalties is not good and whilst I'm all for robust defensive tackling Foyth was asking for it with the second one, virtually wrestling the Wolves' guy. I've seen worse not given but I don't think the ref was over reacting in this case.

It is three points we deserved but if coming so close to dropping two of them keeps us sharp in the future it is a useful lesson.

[EJG1980]

It is three points we deserved but if coming so close to dropping two of them keeps us sharp in the future it is a useful lesson.

Poch basically said the same thing in his press conference afterwards, that even if you're three ahead you can start taking liberties and doing things you wouldn't normally do that might gift the opposition a way back into the match and give them momentum, and he was a bit upset that it was more experienced players who should know better that did it, but hopefully the match is a good reminder for them of what can happen if you do it.

Hopefully they will learn from it and it could turn out to be a helpful little kick in the bum. As Poch has said before, sometimes it's good to suffer! You learn more than from a easy, walk in the park match.

Edit: Good point about the second penalty, having now seen it a couple more times on highlights calling it soft was too much, and if the teams had been reversed I'd have been annoyed if we hadn't been given a penalty for that incident.

Hopefully it doesn't take the shine off of Juan Foyth's debut though, who I think did very well again aside from the rash penalty challenges. 20 years old and his first top flight match, so he's got plenty of learning to do still. Toby Alderweireld also gave away a penalty for us on his debut, so he's in good company at least

Don't know if you read them already, but Alasdair Gold does some decent post match thoughts each week on the Football London web site. https://www.football.london/tottenha...-full-15369487

[fallenangle]

Thanks for the link, video and, particularly, the article were very interesting.

Good point made that Spurs are now so used to Wembley that they might have the same bedding in problems they had there when the new stadium actually becomes available.

[EJG1980]

I've got my fingers crossed for a January opening for the new stadium. Either Man Utd in the league, which would be appropriate as they were the last team to play at the old WHL, or maybe the FA Cup 3rd round if we're drawn at home. A clue that we could be quite close is that we've painted the pitch markings, which I wouldn't expect them to do unless we're quite close to being able to hold the first test event.



Also, in the days since that video by Alasdair Gold, the cladding on the front of the stadium has progressed and there's a lovely club emblem in place now. Someone who works on site has claimed that all the external cladding should be finished by 1st December.

[fallenangle]

The emblem looks as though it is like part of one of those art installations where each block can be rotated or flipped using motors to create a new design or even, GIF like, animate the image. Having the Spurs cockerel emblem moving around up there would be incredible but I guess even if it was possible the expense would be prohibitive.

When the new stadium is finally finished and Spurs are ready for their first big match there it'll make quite a big national, even international news story. It is going to be one of the most technologically advanced stadiums in Europe and will get a lot of publicity when it is ready.

[EJG1980]

Yeah, a moving emblem might be a bit too much effort The cladding panels will be backlit with LED lights though, so they should be able to make it look pretty spectacular for night matches.



A certain little something looks like it's going to be installed today, to go onto the top of the south stand.



Speaking of which I can't wait to get into that stand. My (and my brother's) season tickets are in the top left corner under the giant video screen. 17,500 Spurs fans crammed in on a big league match / European night should be a lot of fun!



Another trip to Wembley tonight though!

Edit:

Up she goes!

[EJG1980]

Bloody hell

We thoroughly deserved to go through, ended up with 30 to 10 and 75% possession, but for ages it seemed like it was going to be one of "those nights".

My man of the match was Harry Winks, I think it was his best display since coming back from his injury. He had extra work to do as with all the injuries he was the "defensive" midfielder, and he did a superb job and tackling, blocking, winning the ball and breaking up opposition attacks, which isn't his usual game. Great finish from Kane for the first goal. Hilarious that after all the good chances we missed, the winner comes from a weak header that takes two deflections and dribbles over the line. I think we deserved that bit of luck though. Gazzaniga didn't have much to do for long periods but was called into action a few times and pulled off good saves to make sure the result went our way. He also keeps up his run of being on the winning side every time he's started for us.

The late equaliser for Inter against Barca was a little bit annoying, gives us slightly less wiggle room, but realistically we would probably have needed to win against Inter and Barca to go through even without that equaliser, and that's still the case. Still going to be bloody difficult but at least we've (technically) got our fate in our own hands.

[fallenangle]

I was listening to it on the BBC Final Score Red Button and when that first goal went in for PSV I thought that was it. But Spurs, for long periods, totally controlled the match and it seemed they were going to get that important goal sooner or later. Twenty minutes to go and no goal and you start getting a bit worried and it wasn't until the 78th minute that they finally do it and go on to the, as you said, the deserved victory.

That's cutting it a bit too fine for my my liking.

Agree about Winks; his name was always coming up on the commentary and it sounded like he was doing as good a job as Dyer usually does in that role.

The win gives us hope so fingers crossed.

[EJG1980]

Yup, tough but doable. If beat Inter by two or more goals and beat Barca we're guaranteed to qualify. The Inter match is going to be tough as they've been improving all season, in really good form at the mo and up to 2nd in Serie A.

I think beating Inter 1-0 would also win us the head to head against them, as we'd have one away goal to their zero. If we won 2-1 the head to head would be identical and then it'd move on to goal difference to split the teams

We might get a little bit of help as Barca will be guaranteed group winners with a point against PSV, so maybe they'd rest some of the big guns in the final match against us. First and foremost though, let's beat Inter and worry about the rest after that!

[EJG1980]

Levy, Poch, the first team coaches, etc., were at the new stadium tonight for dinner and a look around the facilities. A couple of videos and pics have been leaking out. The sound system and lights seem to be working okay!