Tottenham Hotspur FC 2013/14

[fallenangle]

Judging by MotD I can't disagree with Poch saying that second half performance was one of the best he's seen from Spurs. They did everything right, passed the ball around quickly and imaginatively, changed pace, crossed accurately and dangerously etc etc. The one thing they didn't do of course was score.

We could/should have had at least a point from the game and a 3-1 win wouldn't have flattered us at all - it was just that De Gea was in the right place to block the shots time after time, damn him.

As you say Injury worries now too for HK and others - with Son elsewhere I think we'll be seeing more of Llorente in the coming games; good thing Spurs haven't offloaded him as some newspapers/web sites were suggesting they would do during the January transfer window.

[EJG1980]

Judging by MotD I can't disagree with Poch saying that second half performance was one of the best he's seen from Spurs. They did everything right, passed the ball around quickly and imaginatively, changed pace, crossed accurately and dangerously etc etc. The one thing they didn't do of course was score.

Yup, I've seen us get comfortable 2 or 3 goals wins without playing half as well or creating half as many chances as we did in that second half yesterday. As Poch said, sometimes you win when you don't deserve to win, sometimes you lose when you don't deserve to lose, it's part of football and there's nothing you can do apart from accepting it and moving on.

Dembele has flown out to Hong Kong today to complete his move to China. With his age and recent injury record, I can see why we're okay with letting him go and getting 11 million quid for him (don't think he has long left on his contract either). I'll miss seeing him in the team, when he was at his best he was great to watch, and I'm glad that we got to see him at his best for a while after his "good but a little underwhelming" start to his time with us.

Him leaving must further cement Winks as a genuine first team player now (and I thought his second half yesterday was a very good performance, especially having to adjust to losing Sissoko being alongside him).

[fallenangle]

Some unpleasantness has apparently been reported by a Spurs fan at the MU match about comments, allegedly racist, made by another Spurs' supporter about Son. Spurs are "working with" the Spurs supporter who made the allegation to try and identify the person involved.

Not good. Also not good is the claims by one newspaper that the new stadium will not be fit for purpose before the end of the season.

[TonyDA]

Also not good is the rumour that Kane’s out for a month. Just as we were about to get Llorente’s £100k a week off the books as well.

[EJG1980]

From a tweet by Moura yesterday it sounds like he won't be coming back from injury too soon either. Losing Kane, Moura, Son, all at the same time, possibly Sissoko too; it's going to be a challenging time!

Losing Kane is a massive blow, but I think Llorente could do okay if he gets to play a few full 90 minutes in a row. It must be very tough to get anywhere near your best form when you play for 8 minutes here, nothing for 2 weeks, 9 minutes there, nothing for three weeks. And we can still field a very good three to play behind Llorente with Alli, Eriksen and Lamela.

I think the biggest challenge is that there won't now really be any game changers on the subs bench, nor will those attacking players be able to rotate, they'll probably have to play every single game until we get other players back from injury. Testing times but the team have shown they can come through those before, so we can do so again.

Edit: official update on Kane from the club, he's expected to return to training in early March. So, rough guess, a couple of weeks to get back up to speed, mid March before we see him back in the team? A real shame and a big blow, but we've just gotta get on with it without him.

Some unpleasantness has apparently been reported by a Spurs fan at the MU match about comments, allegedly racist, made by another Spurs' supporter about Son. Spurs are "working with" the Spurs supporter who made the allegation to try and identify the person involved.

I'm very fortunate that I've been to hundreds of matches and can barely remember witnessing any racism. One of the main ones I remember was back in the early 90s, I was about 14 and it was one of the first few matches I went too, one of our fans abusing an opposition black player. I'm glad to say that he was shut down by a good number of other fans and told in no uncertain terms that he'd better not say anything like that again. I've heard anti-semetic chanting from West Ham and Chelsea fans a couple of times, but even against them the matches have much more often than not passed without incident.

While waiting in the queue at Wembley after the Inter match earlier this season, the Inter fans (who were cordoned off in their own separate queue) made monkey noises at black Spurs fans on our side of the queue. Really sickening to be present when something like that happens.

That's the only incident I've witnessed personally for years, but it does seem as though the are more and more reports in recent times of racist incidents taking place. I really hope it's not a sign of things to come and that any rise in incidents can be stamped out.

[TonyDA]

A work colleague said to me this afternoon - with glee, as he's a Liverpool fan and for some unexplainable reason (sweeping statement coming up) Liverpool fans seem to hate Spurs as much as they do Man Utd - 'well, maybe you'll actually buy another striker now that Kane's injured.' I wanted to agree, but couldn't see how either we'd have the money needed to buy someone good enough to deserve keeping a place in the front four when Kane et al are all back, nor whether such a player would be available anyway.

All very depressing, really, despite the obvious reasons for a lack of squad depth and investment. We are so close to achieving something, and crikey, that's actually such an improvement on 20-odd years of mediocrity (or worse), but we've flagged for the past four seasons around this time - and you could argue it's cost us one or two titles and maybe a couple of cups. The same, smallish group of players have to drag themselves through game after game...and eventually it cracks. Did we lose to Utd because of great goalkeeping or poor finishing? If poor finishing from 3 or 4 of the best players in the league then why? Could it be fatigue, mental or physical rather than just bad luck?

This is almost the point where we could do with being out of both domestic cups, in order to give a threadbare team time to recuperate. But I still want us to get to the League Cup Final and beat Palace in the FA Cup!

[EJG1980]

...but we've flagged for the past four seasons around this time - and you could argue it's cost us one or two titles and maybe a couple of cups. The same, smallish group of players have to drag themselves through game after game...and eventually it cracks.

First off, I must apologise in advance for being an utter pub bore about this

But, I don't think that's correct. Under Poch we've normally dropped most points at the start of the season, when we should be freshest, and start hitting our stride in December / January time and go on a run that puts us into contention, with us not quite being able to make up for our slowish start. Look at the last couple of seasons:

2017/18 - in the first 15 matches we lost 4, drew 4, won 7. 1.66 points per game at the start when we're fresh.

Then, from 9th December onward, we only lost 3, drew 4, and won 16 of the remaining 23 matches (and two of those three losses were to runaway champions Man City). 2.26 points per game when the matches came thick and fast.

So we lost fewer and drew the same in the final 23 matches as we did in the first 15.

2016/17 - in the first 15 matches we lost 2, drew 6, won 7. 1.8 points per game at the start when we're fresh.

Then, from 14th December onward, we only lost 2, drew 2, and won 19 of the remaining 23 matches. 2.56 points per game when the matches started piling up.

The same number of losses and far fewer draws in the final 23 matches as we had in the first 15.

This season has actually bucked the trend with us getting a much better points per game ratio at the start than we usually do, 2.2 points per game in the first 15 this season which is way up on the previous two seasons. It's dropped a tiny bit since then, 2.14 points per game in the last 7 matches (though fingers crossed we beat Fulham and that pushes it back up to 2.25 points per game in the past 8).

Gonna be a big challenge to see if we can keep picking up points around that kind of rate with no Kane and the other injuries we have. I agree, it is a bit tempting to think "Bugger it, ditch the cups!" but like you I wouldn't want us to do that. I'm desperate to see us line up against Man City in the League Cup final, and want us to go as far as possible in the FA Cup and CL. If we can stay in those competitions, who knows, we might just have a full strength squad back in time to do something special in the later rounds.

Edit:

Speaking of the squad, with Dembele completing his move to the Chinese league any day now, we'll have some scope to bring in another player in January.

The big problem we had (in the summer and now) is that you can have a maximum of 17 non-homegrown players in your 25 man Premier League squad. We already had the full 17 (Janssen was left out of the squad because of this, so no possibility of playing but still being paid) and so we needed some players to leave in order to have the squad space available for any new players.

When the players we expected / wanted to leave in the summer didn't, no squad spaces for any new signings. Which is also why we looked at Grealish, as he's homegrown so could have been added to the squad without someone else needing to drop out.

So, with Dembele going, we'll have a space for a foreign signing. I've seen a few rumours that we might be trying to sign Malcolm on loan from Barcelona until the end of the season, so, we'll have to wait and see what happens.

[hudson]

A work colleague said to me this afternoon - with glee, as he's a Liverpool fan and for some unexplainable reason (sweeping statement coming up) Liverpool fans seem to hate Spurs as much as they do Man Utd - 'well, maybe you'll actually buy another striker now that Kane's injured.' I wanted to agree, but couldn't see how either we'd have the money needed to buy someone good enough to deserve keeping a place in the front four when Kane et al are all back, nor whether such a player would be available anyway.

All very depressing, really, despite the obvious reasons for a lack of squad depth and investment. We are so close to achieving something, and crikey, that's actually such an improvement on 20-odd years of mediocrity (or worse), but we've flagged for the past four seasons around this time - and you could argue it's cost us one or two titles and maybe a couple of cups. The same, smallish group of players have to drag themselves through game after game...and eventually it cracks. Did we lose to Utd because of great goalkeeping or poor finishing? If poor finishing from 3 or 4 of the best players in the league then why? Could it be fatigue, mental or physical rather than just bad luck?

This is almost the point where we could do with being out of both domestic cups, in order to give a threadbare team time to recuperate. But I still want us to get to the League Cup Final and beat Palace in the FA Cup!

I'm a Liverpool fan (Been to about 8 games this season and there on Saturday) and I don't dislike Spurs as much as ManUtd. But I do like to see them fail as they are one of our current rivals in this campaign, and several campaigns before. This is normal.

The Man Utd rivalry runs way deeper. Deeper than the Everton rivalry. Unless, Everton have a decent season! I dunno maybe it depends which decades you witnessed your football. Can't say I'm too bothered about Spurs.

[EJG1980]

I'm a Liverpool fan (Been to about 8 games this season and there on Saturday) and I don't dislike Spurs as much as ManUtd. But I do like to see them fail as they are one of our current rivals in this campaign, and several campaigns before. This is normal.

The Man Utd rivalry runs way deeper. Deeper than the Everton rivalry. Unless, Everton have a decent season! I dunno maybe it depends which decades you witnessed your football. Can't say I'm too bothered about Spurs.

Nail on head. It's a natural consequence of two teams fighting at around the same level for a period of time.

When I started going back in the 90s and we were finishing 12th, 9th, 14th, etc., what Liverpool were doing didn't have a bearing on us, so I never gave them or their results a second thought.

In the last ten years though, with us fighting for similar objectives and usually finishing quite close to each other each season, yup, now I care. But it'd be exactly the same if... Newcastle were up there instead of Liverpool, I'd be taking notice of their results and hoping they slip up.

I'll always care about our results against Arsenal no matter what we or they are doing, because they're our historic biggest rivals (and Chelsea to a lesser degree, and West Ham to a lesser lesser degree ) but everyone else... if their results can affect our season, I care, if they probably won't affect our season, I don't. I think most fans at most clubs would be the same.

[fallenangle]

I've always thought in similar way too but I have to admit that I've often kept an eye on Man.Utd wherever they are. That is probably a legacy of the fact that back in the day most weeks ITV broadcast their Champions League games in full. With one of my favourite ex-Spurs players Teddy Sheringham often playing and the style and success they had under SirAF what was there to hate?

I've always thought there was a strong connection between Spurs and them in terms of footballing ethos ie. they want to win but they want to win playing attractive, attacking football as well. That's what their fans still want and ours too and I'm pleased to say Spurs have remained true to that ethos but MU? Not under their last two managers and consequently, except when it affects us, I've not been bothered much about them.

That might change under OGS.

Liverpool I've never cared about what they were doing even when they were successful. For over 60 years Spurs couldn't beat them at Anfield and that's all which mattered to me as every season the game felt like right off even before the ball was kicked. It became almost a cliche that Spurs were, at best, only going to get a point there and having lived with that reality for decades may be it has coloured my view of them. But hate them? No.

[EJG1980]

73 years to be precise! We won on 16th March 1912 and then no win until (funnily enough) 16th March 1985.

I've only been to Anfield once, a pretty tedious 0-0 draw in 2012 where the biggest highlight was the cat that invaded the pitch in the first half, and Bale somehow missing a last minute one on one chance that would have won it for us. Better luck than my younger brother though, who's been twice and saw us lose 3-2 to late goals both times!

I've always had respect for Liverpool fans thanks to our FA Cup quarter-final win at Anfield in 1995 (with Sheringham's wonderful equaliser and Klinsmann's last minute winner), when a large number of the Liverpool fans stayed after the final whistle to give the celebrating Spurs players a standing ovation.

I think something that's different these days is social media. Every club's 1% of loudmouth trolls and those who post only to wind others up will be shared / retweeted thousands of times, while the 99% posting straightforward sensible stuff will get ignored. As with the normal media, the sensationalist, unrepresentative stuff, tends to get the most coverage, which I'm sure colours peoples' perceptions of other fans.

[hudson]

Sheringham's goal was a peach. Yeah, totally agree about the social media aspect. Bantz! and all that caper Gotta love grabbing the popcorn for AFTV after a Gunners loss though eh?

[fallenangle]

Thanks to Arsenal another chance today for Spurs to open up our gap above Chelsea and maintain third in the Premiership. MC are catchable but even with a win we'll still be 9 points behind Liverpool.

If only Crystal Palace had held out or even won yesterday I'd be more confident Spurs would at least have a chance to get back in contention for the title. I think even MC are going to have a hard time catching them now unless, of course, Liverpool go into meltdown.

[EJG1980]

Smash N’Koudou grab

I have to say we rode our luck in the first half. We weren’t playing well at all and could have been more than 1-0 down at the break.

Started the second half much better and deserved to equalise, but after the Rose shot that hit the bar we couldn’t quite keep up the same intensity and while we were still on top we were finding it a little harder to break though.

Kept going right until the end though and got our reward for not giving up. There isn’t much better than being in a packed away end when your team scores a last minute winner Great cross from the forgotten man N’Koudou and lovely seeing a Spurs man like Winks getting the goal.

Of course, every silver lining has a cloud and it looks like we’re likely to lose yet another player to injury in Dele Alli. Hopefully it’s not as bad as it seems but Poch said it didn’t look good.

He did also say that Moura was nearly ready for today but they didn’t want to risk it, so fingers crossed he’ll be okay for the next match. Good to see Eric Dier back as well. Hopefully Sissoko should be back too as I’m sure I read Poch saying that he only expected him to miss Fulham.

[fallenangle]

Look forward to seeing the highlights tonight on MotD and I'll very interested to see what Llorente was doing back there. HK had a habit of drifting back to 'help' out the defence and managed to score at least one own goal in the process.

The strikers job in all but desperate circumstances is to be up the pitch near the centre circle tying up the opposition back line as a threat and providing a target outlet when their side get the ball. They then hold it up and waits for the support or release it quickly and make a counter attacking run themselves; that is a striker's defensive role.

Not a convincing result by the sound of it but grabbing a late win when it could have been just a draw is job done in my book.

EDIT

Having just watched it on MotD - I repeat: WTF was Llorente dong back there? He should have had at least one other goal, at the right end this time, too.

First half Fulham played a very decent game mainly because Spurs were shapeless and unimaginative in attack and nervous in defence. Second half they started mixing it up, got back into the game and deserved the win.

Winks rightly praised by the MotD pundits.