Outrun2 Demo

[razu]

I don't understand the problem with the gfx. Looks the same to me. And it looks like how my brain remembers the original

[Commander Marklar]

NOTE: this is just my opinion so back off non SEGA fanboys

[S0L]

Hello,

I'm not jumpiing in on either side here, mostly because I have a little Outrun 2 bias, but more as I don't really understand whay you are fighting over

Indeed I have played and enjoyed both games. Yes, we have played Burnout 3 at Sumo, and yep, we enjoyed it. End of the day I think there is plenty of room for both games so I don't quite understand the need for so much disgreement and game bashing going on in here. But then, I never understood the Nes/SMS, Amiga/ST, SNES/Megadrive argument - though that might be down to me owning the lot... Thats a joke btw - I'd never buy an ST

Anyway, what does bother me, is the comment that Outrun 2 doesn't look exactly like the arcade. This took me a little by surprise, as I know exactly what we've done to bring it onto Xbox. And that doesn't include messing with colour depth, effects or level of detail. I can only think that maybe you're playing through RF...?

If you would like to let me know where you feel the game differs from the arcade, I'll have someone look at it, as we strove constantly to make sure we matched up, right down to having the arcade setup next to a TV running the game. I'd be gutted if we missed something!

And finally, here is a thought. When I'm not sure if a game is going to match up, I rent it. That way I don't have to rely on anyone else's opinion and I can form my own Maybe if you're not sure about either you should give that a go? This is more for people who aren't sure about Outrun by the way, but I guess the same goes if you've not played Burnout

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Sol
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[razu]

Ah, just the dude. Now, I've done a fair bit of Xbox programming. From what I read of the Chihiro board/machine the only difference was in RAM and storage. Without knowing how big the levels are and whether they are streamed in/all loaded in at the same time, etc... I'd have said the only difference would have been texture size/compression if it didn't all fit. All the code, including vertex & pixel shaders would have been exactly the same and the geometry would have been the same too.

As I understood it, the biggest challenge in the home version was the online play and extra bits to make it onto a viable home game.

As I've said before, it looks the same to me and I've put hours into both versions.

Well done to the Sumo team for making the handling work perfectly on the joypad.

Now I'm off to play Burnout 3...

[bowser123]

Just wondering Sol if you can/don't mind answering a quick question.

Will your scores from the standard 1 player mode be loaded onto Xbox live so we can compare scores? Also is there going to be a mode like in PGR2 where you can download the ghost of the top 10 drivers worldwide so you can analyse their time?

Anyhow not all of us are bitching over Outrun V Burnout. A quick glance at most of the posts and you'll see most people love it. I mean how many pages for a demo disc?

[S0L]

I know, we're quite pleased with the response it has had. I think the demo will also be on OXBM this month, so if for any reason people have missed it at Game, if they get the mag they will get to play it.

Online rankings are in there, though I'm not sure what exactly gets up/downloaded. We do store ghosts locally, but I'm not sure off the top of my head if we support downloaded ones. This isn't something I've personally been involved in, but if I get chance tomorrow, I will see if I can find out.

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Sol
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[randombs]

Thanks for that input Sol

I can't see how much different it is from the arcade version, although tbh I've only played the arcade version once! However, playing the demo again and again, i've only noticed a teeny bit of popup and it's only trees and stuff, and it may have been in the arcade version anyway - in fact, i'd go as far as to say it MUST have been in the arcade version as from what i've read it uses 512mb ram, and i've never heard of ram affecting popup - that'd be cpu and i think the chihiro board uses the standard xbox PIII/733:

from system 16.com:

"Changed the hardware description for the Chihiro Hardware, it seems like it has actually got an upgradable RAM board instead of the standard XBOX's 64mb, found this out after being sent a picture of an Outrun 2 crate with a "MEMORY 512MB" sticker on the side of it (thanks to Shane Wells) and also in an article about the upcoming XBOX version of Outrun 2 having porting issues due to having to cram the port into 64mb of RAM."

heck, if the arcade version does have 512m ram (sol could you verify this?) then that's half a gd-rom!

i can't be bothered to read through the whole thread regarding the arguments about colour depth and all that, but for god's sake, there's no way outrun 2 (arcade or home version) can be accused of not being colourful enough. mine is running on rgb and it's drop-dead gorgeous. not one person i've shown it to hasn't been stunned at that wicked close-up of the ferrari at the start of a race, where you can see the treads and everything - heck, i'd go as far as to say it really brightens up my day playing it, especially as it's raining here!

as for progressive scan, unfortunately that's something i won't be experiencing any time soon, however i'm interested in getting a progressive->vga adaptor to see how that looks

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please please please Sol, could you find the time to answer these quick questions? (if not sol, then anyone who knows the answers)

1. What resolution is the arcade version running at? is it in hi-res progressive (or 1024x768 sort of dimensions), or just standard 640x480?

2. Roughly, what sort of problems did RAM limitations cause? I'm assuming the obvious one would be texture detail, but what about model geometry, trackside detail or sound?

3. Are the tracks streamed to counter the effects of having under 64mb ram? (as some is used for gfx ram obviously). If lots of secret tricks have been used then that's fine I'm not nosy

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As for Burnout 3 vs Outrun 2, I don't really play bo3 like i do outrun 2 as it doesn't encourage me to learn the tracks. There's just so much to do that I prefer to just fluke my way through to get extra cars (even then, it's only so my mates don't moan about me having the standard cars)

As has been said on this thread, Outrun 2 rekindles that age-old Sega arcade feel, shaving seconds off your lap times and memorising racing lines and things like that. I've always preferred Sega Rally's 3 tracks over GT3's 50 or whatever, or other rally games with 100+, as you lose that sense of connection as you can't realistically memorise all those tracks.

I've had Sega Rally on my saturn since '96, and have rarely moved on from the desert course. I've even got a Jap copy sitting in a draw waiting for me to get a saturn to play it on

[randombs]

I was playing this last night and... bloody hell! This really is (visually) pants compared to the Arcade isn't it?

This must be the first time since my CPC6128 that I've been disappointed with the graphics promised and delivered.

have console ports ever looked as good as their arcade counterparts?

i've never come across one, except for soul calibur on dc, although that was a complete remake on more powerful hardware so i wouldn't really count that. it's not really a port as such is it?

even the naomi arcade games look much better than their dc ports - i was playing virtua tennis 2 on arcade after having it on my dc for yonks and it looked even more gorgeous

if anyone can think of any 3D (not 2D, although i don't see why it can't be included) ports that are better graphically than their arcade versions please let me know. it's an interesting issue

mind you superkully this isnt a dig at what you've said, as it holds some weight, and i'm sure your use of 'pants' is relative

oh and you lucky git i only had a 464

[razu]

I agree with everything except the GT bashing. GT is the king of shaving nanoseconds off your laps. License mode, 2 corners, first go 3 seconds off gold. Only 2 corners!!! Little by little you get there, brilliant.

[S0L]

Blimey,

That is quite a long post. And technical too. Give that man a biscuit

For NDA reasons I can't go into details of the arcade machine. There are a few inaccuracies in the info you have got though. I'm sure this is covered on the Internet somewhere, so I'll leave it there.

The main problem we had to overcome for the Xbox was the difference in memory between the Xbox and the Arcade. Thats about as far as I can go.

Some of the pop up in the demo is our fault, we've gone through and fixed this where we have found it. So it should be better when you see it come October 1st.

As a long standing fan of Sega racing games (can I also count F-Zero GX in that?) it's been a pleasure to work on Outrun. If you had told the kid in the arcade playing the game some 15/17 years ago, that one day he'd work on the sequel, I doubt he would have believed you

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Sol
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[randombs]

yeah good point, but i'm not bashing GT as such. i'm just saying i don't find it fun shaving seconds off laps in GT like i do in SR

then again, i haven't even started GT mode yet and never will. i never had a PS, I had a saturn, so I only owned GT when I got my PS2 2 years ago, and i've just never had the time to invest, what with studies and stuff, and the fact that i bought a saturn again a little while after my ps2 thus getting back into SR

oh well, maybe GT4?

[randombs]

lol who me?
ok it's fine about the NDA stuff i understand (not that i've ever signed one myself )
i guess i was shocked hearing about 512mb ram, and am i correct in assuming the inaccuracies are to do with the mention of porting difficulties? or the ram itself? oh never mind it's probably NDA again, so i'll just get on the net when i'm a bit more awake

well i guess ram has always been an issue with arcade-console ports simply because you can put as much as you want in an arcade machine as cost isn't as big an issue as it is with a console, and all the other stuff, like the entire board being the game and so on

[JAPJAC]

If you've used a PS2 Network Adapter, you'll have all the network hardware that Live requires. You just plug an ethernet cable from your PC/hub/router into the back of the machine. Job done.

The Live kit is 6,800 yen and there are two choices of pack. Both will give you the headset, a demo disc and a years sub. The first pack will also give you a free copy of Phantasy Star Online and a USB-Xbox keyboard adapter. The second pack includes a free copy of MotoGP:URT2 instead. Xbox PSO is utterly shot to pieces and MotoGP ain't bad, so I know what I'd go for.

Getting signed up is really easy. If I remember correctly as long as you choose English as your system language in the dash, the Live signup should be in English also. You can change the language back to Japanese later if you so desire in the Dashboard.

You just pop the demo disc in and it will copy the Live dashboard onto your machine (if it doesn't have it installed already - all new machines do). Once it's installed it will try to automatically configure your Xbox's net connection. If it doesn't work, there's various settings that you can change and Xbox Live has decent phone support, so there will always be someone to help you.

Once you're connected it will update your Xbox to the latest version of the Live dashboard (a small download). From there, you choose to register a new account and you'll go through steps to fill in all your details and your credit card number (this is for secure logins as well as rebilling after your first year and for purchase of premium downloads - there's no obligation for either and you can cancel your sub if you're bored after a year). For more details on Live in Japan, you'll want to look here: http://www.xbox.com/ja-jp/live/default.htm

OutRun 2 is out in "November" in Japan apparently (unofficial - Magicbox is the source). I don't know any more than that. Microsoft make no mention of it on their site (which is absolutely insane, considering how many Xboxes it could sell in Japan) and Sega's site says nothing too.

On the other hand, you could always import a US machine and a US format copy of the game (as well as a US Live kit if you need one. Be aware that you can buy a Japanese one and just use the keycode from that on the US dash as Live accounts will work on any region machine). All recent western machines come with the smaller pad now anyway. The US release is toward the end of October (confirmed).

Hope that helps.

Thank you very very much for typing it out so clearly. Your a diamond. Cheers.