Final Fantasy XII

[sj33]

The story is fine, no complaints from me, speaking as a person who really liked previous FF stories,

But the focus is very clearly different, there's much less of an emotive element, no 'romantic' subplot either. Just getting on with the business.

[lostn]

There was never much romance in any FF game. It was only small things, never the focus of the story. They tried to sell FF8 as a love story, but it's far from it.

[sj33]

Well 'love interest' then, whatever you wanna call it, there's none of it, lol. I'm not adverse to such plotlines, but I did like not having to deal with that stuff this time round.

People who kept going on about the so-called 'teen angst' direction FF games were apparently going in will be glad there's none of that here.

I like the story of FFXII myself, and the characters themselves have such personality, even if I wish they expanded on them more.

[C']

I'm not sure if people have misunderstood my sentiments. I didn't dislike the story at all and the characters were fantastic. I just found the underlying polital themes and the alliances between different nations confusing.

Like, as different people and places were brought to the story I was trying to figure out who they were, who they were siding with etc. I tend to have this issue with a fair few story based games anyway but I find they become clearer on a second play through.

[Eight Rooks]

C' - just curious, do you read that many fantasy novels with any politics in them at all? FF XII really isn't that complicated. Most of the comments on the supposed genius of the storyline have come uncomfortably close, for me, to the people who were blatantly falling for Tactics in large part because it had lots of silly made-up names and ticked off all the right boxes (politics, religion, tragedy etc.) without there actually being any real intelligence or depth to any of it at all.

Then again, I can't stand the franchise on the whole. XII is miles ahead of any other FF game I've played in that it does actually have some character development (there's none whatsoever in VII or VIII, and I saw none in what I played of IX and X), a fairly decent, semi-literate script and doesn't slap you in the face with half the JRPG cliches in the book, as all the other games seem prone to do. Still, there's little or no development for all that. Everyone has their One Big Crisis still, and most of them get precious little time beyond a couple of quick speeches to develop it - Vaan barely gets a couple of paragraphs, and we end the game knowing virtually no more about him than we did half an hour in!

I enjoyed FF XII a great deal, and I'm very glad I played it. Still, for all its undeniable good points it still epitomises a great deal of what's wrong with the franchise, the genre and even videogames in general on several counts.

[lostn]

What do you mean by character development? Surely there was some in FF7? FF8 had a little bit from two characters, neglecting the rest. But FF9 had development.

[Wools]

Really don't understand the negative attitude towards FFXIII.

Possibly because the game is not as traditional as previous games for the hardcore Final Fantasy players & the Okami & Zelda fans still are not convinced by the inheritly rusty JRPG mechanic.

I've brought every major PAL JRPG & I still bloody hate the genre. Yet like a moth to the flame, and a long running trait of mine to try and enjoy everything I'm considering getting this.

Has Square come true with their promise of good conversions and this is 60hz in PAL land?

[Eight Rooks]

Eh, I'm exaggerating. But only by a tiny bit. I played FF VII very near to the end and there's nothing to the main characters beyond, say

Cloud:

->Open Spoiler<-

"Why am I so grumpy?" *flashback* "My, that Sephiroth's a headcase and no mistake - ZOMG AMNESIA"

or

Sephiroth:

->Open Spoiler<-

"What do you mean, genetic... experiment... I - aggggggghhhhhhh MOTHERRRRRRR"

(Oh, and we can't forget the big sword. No-one ever seems to be able to forget the big sword.)

and so on.

FF VIII - nothing to Squall beyond "...", and - no way of putting this politely - the

->Open Spoiler<-

orphanage

plotline only had any resonance with those of a really, really low reading level. It's really not a matter of opinion; there is nothing there other than "Aren't friends wonderful? Golly gee, yes. Now let's go and defeat evil" with absolutely nothing to ground this in any kind of real, genuinely human emotion. FF IX I'm pretty hazy on, but I don't remember much standing out and I did get through 2, almost 3 CDs of it. FF X... I still don't remember anything beyond standard soap-opera believe-in-yourself cliches, though admittedly I gave up on that about a third in because Tidus was so awful a character he made my brain hurt.

XII is pretty much the first of the series I've ever played where the world feels at all believable, dirty, lived in, real; where the events going on have any kind of real impact on the rest of the NPCs; where the party talk about the things that matter to them the way actual people might be expected to; where the cast have character arcs with more than three or even two points... I could go on and on. It's far from perfect, partly for the reasons I've already stated, partly for others - but it's the first in the franchise that if you spun it out into a book it wouldn't get laughed out of the shops.

[dogen]

Has Square come true with their promise of good conversions and this is 60hz in PAL land?

I haven't seen an option for 60hz, just 16:9 ratio and minimal borders. On par with Dragon Quest VIII from what I've witnessed.

[fuse]

Out of question, anyone heard of any gameplay differences between US/JPN versions of the game and the EU version?

[lostn]

Eh, I'm exaggerating. But only by a tiny bit. I played FF VII very near to the end and there's nothing to the main characters beyond, say

Cloud:

->Open Spoiler<-

"Why am I so grumpy?" *flashback* "My, that Sephiroth's a headcase and no mistake - ZOMG AMNESIA"

or

Sephiroth:

->Open Spoiler<-

"What do you mean, genetic... experiment... I - aggggggghhhhhhh MOTHERRRRRRR"

(Oh, and we can't forget the big sword. No-one ever seems to be able to forget the big sword.)

and so on.

FF VIII - nothing to Squall beyond "...", and - no way of putting this politely - the

->Open Spoiler<-

orphanage

plotline only had any resonance with those of a really, really low reading level. It's really not a matter of opinion; there is nothing there other than "Aren't friends wonderful? Golly gee, yes. Now let's go and defeat evil" with absolutely nothing to ground this in any kind of real, genuinely human emotion. FF IX I'm pretty hazy on, but I don't remember much standing out and I did get through 2, almost 3 CDs of it. FF X... I still don't remember anything beyond standard soap-opera believe-in-yourself cliches, though admittedly I gave up on that about a third in because Tidus was so awful a character he made my brain hurt.

XII is pretty much the first of the series I've ever played where the world feels at all believable, dirty, lived in, real; where the events going on have any kind of real impact on the rest of the NPCs; where the party talk about the things that matter to them the way actual people might be expected to; where the cast have character arcs with more than three or even two points... I could go on and on. It's far from perfect, partly for the reasons I've already stated, partly for others - but it's the first in the franchise that if you spun it out into a book it wouldn't get laughed out of the shops.

But you didn't say FFXII had character development... just believable characters. Could you bring up an example of a game where you thought there was some real character development? I just want to compare standards.

Yes there are a bunch of cliches in past games. Some were a long time ago though, and maybe amnesia wasn't cliche back then yet. But all the characters got their moment in FF7.

[Razz]

Out of question, anyone heard of any gameplay differences between US/JPN versions of the game and the EU version?

Nothing new was added to any release. So don't expect an international version in Japan.

[C']

Nothing new was added to western FFX-2, Kingdom Hearts etc (bar an English voicetrack) and they both got an International/Final Mix version.

I wouldn't say you can rule it out.

[vocoderfreak]

While currently loving the beauty and gaming goodness of Okami and picking up Crackdown for a bit of mindless escapism, I'm still sorely tempted to go out and pick this up. What do people reckon - worth a punt?

[sj33]

Nothing new was added to western FFX-2, Kingdom Hearts etc (bar an English voicetrack) and they both got an International/Final Mix version.

I wouldn't say you can rule it out.

The US version did get the widescreen mode added though, I assume the UK one has this.

While currently loving the beauty and gaming goodness of Okami and picking up Crackdown for a bit of mindless escapism, I'm still sorely tempted to go out and pick this up. What do people reckon - worth a punt?

I'd finish Okami first, then go for it.