StarWars KOTOR

[Adam Stone]

As explained elsewhere, for some reason despite my keen interest in the title, I wasn?t overly sure whether to purchase it or not. Reviews aren?t a contributing factor to my purchases so the high appreciation across the Internet didn?t really have much of an effect on me? they simply increased my understating and interest but nothing else. I remained unsure whether it was a game I would enjoy or not?

However, with my growing love for RPGs, and my increased appetite from Tales of Symphonia ? I thought it was about time I tried this out. Many thanks again to scaredbyvideogames for lending it to me

Tho I think im in the vast minority?

I'll start with the positive: I?ve been playing for around 12-13hours and have found many parts highly impressive and very enjoyable indeed. The sheer number of people/aliens to interact with is incredible and each with their own unique voice and personalities is quite extraordinary really. I agree with Brats that the topics raised are very interesting indeedy. Such as social class, prejudice, and individual rights etc. It expresses very true-to-earth morality.

I felt really angry at the little kids who were abuses the Alien who was innocently minding his own business. I felt pity for those who were forced to dwell in the Undercity. Also, thought it was typical that the higher class wouldn?t be seen talking to you (the playable character) and would offer no help, whereas those who dwell below (the lowest social order) were all too happy to.

The whole moral choice thing is wonderfully well executed too. I haven?t been striving for a particular good or evil status. I was playing the game as if I were the main character and the choices which, if I were in the same situation, I would choose. Its been interesting to see that my choices have been a mixture of good and evil?

However sadly?

I really don?t think I?m going to carry on with the game... For me personally, I can appreciate how this is an excellent game but not a stunning one? But like Prince of Persia, being an excellent game isnt enough to keep me playing... there are many excellent games out there which remain unfinished by myself because they fail to really captivate/entertain me.

I understand that I haven?t played anywhere near as much as I need to make an underlining opinion? but, I feel that if by 13hours or so I don?t really feel the urge to continue? there?s little point.

I?m not too keen on the battle system, and altho this may be due to me not fully understanding how it works (even tho I think I do? tho I imagine im missing something) I don?t think that?s the reason why I don?t like it. while playing ToS, for the first few hours I hadn?t a clue how to use the battle system professional, but I still enjoyed it and was intrigued to master it. Here tho? it has very little in the way of ?Oh, I like this?? its kinda a bit ?meh?. I prefer talking to the non-playable-characters 100% more

Also I really don?t like the menu/item interface?
And? this is something I usually never complain about? but this time it hindered my enjoyment some what?

I thought the loading times were too long too frequent. The length usually doesn?t bother me, but every time u move into a different location? and if you?re doing a lot of location wandering? it becomes really quite bothersome. Which is a shame.. because I really hate complaining about stuff like this.

All in all, I can see how this receives high praise, tho am a little unsure whether I agree with the quantity of praise. Tho I understand im in a disadvantage for not have completed the title?

A top title? i enjoyed playing more then i expected actually... very much so. But ToS did more for me personally?. (please excuse the comparison)

I'm still very glad i tried it out too ^_^

[JRMacumber]

Have you made it far enough in to have become a Jedi? If not, you've really not played the game, as it positively blossoms when you get Force powers and your lightsaber. Up to that point you're only playing a tiny bit of what it has to offer.

But, that said, it's not for everyone, and at least you gave it a shot. Can't complain about that.

[Madbury]

Bloody hell where have you been ^^^^

Long time no see.

[Prine]

Your still on Taris right? Listen to JR, it doesnt even start until you become a Jedi and explore the other worlds, using your position to save/annihilate people you come across.

Have you saved Bastilla yet?

Taris is just a tutorial, keep going man.

[Adam Stone]

Sadly I haven?t yet. But I get the feeling I?m getting close?

I?ve decided that I?m gonna stick with it a little longer and see if my opinion changes

Its annoying because it feels just like my sort of game: clever, engrossing, captivating with the potential to allow hours to fly by... interesting characters, being allowed to customize to your hearts content... etc

So giving up is personally frustrating. So, im gonna give it a little longer and hope the small criticisms i have at the moment dwindle into nothingness as i progress...

Shall keep ya posted. ^_^

[Eight Rooks]

Meh, someone bumps this from the dead, I can't resist adding my own little whine...

Tho I think im in the vast minority?

I'll start with the positive: I?ve been playing for around 12-13hours and have found many parts highly impressive and very enjoyable indeed. The sheer number of people/aliens to interact with is incredible and each with their own unique voice and personalities is quite extraordinary really. I agree with Brats that the topics raised are very interesting indeedy. Such as social class, prejudice, and individual rights etc. It expresses very true-to-earth morality.

I felt really angry at the little kids who were abuses the Alien who was innocently minding his own business. I felt pity for those who were forced to dwell in the Undercity. Also, thought it was typical that the higher class wouldn?t be seen talking to you (the playable character) and would offer no help, whereas those who dwell below (the lowest social order) were all too happy to.

The whole moral choice thing is wonderfully well executed too. I haven?t been striving for a particular good or evil status. I was playing the game as if I were the main character and the choices which, if I were in the same situation, I would choose. Its been interesting to see that my choices have been a mixture of good and evil?

(long rant, of sorts)

No, I think I'm in the vast minority. I couldn't disagree more with most of what you said; I didn't find the characterisation particularly distinctive or surprising, and I didn't think the moral choices were very well implemented in the slightest. To paraphrase something I saw on another topic that mentioned KOTOR (it might have been this forum, might not) far, far too many choices went along these lines:

"Excuse me, sir, can you give me some money in order to feed these fluffy kittens?"
1)"Why, certainly, little girl."
2)"Why, certainly, little girl - here, take this food for the kittens, take all my money, and take my lightsaber to the pawn shop in order to make sure you and your family never want for anything again."
3)"Kittens? Give 'em here." <mew!> <splat> "Ha! I killed your kittens, now I think I'm going to kill you, just for the hell of it! Then I'm going to kill your family and burn your house to the ground as well! HA!"

It was drearily predictable 90% of the way, with no real sense of character development or interesting moral delineation. You had the option of playing a po-faced holier-than-thou whiter-than-white type gunning for sainthood, a psychotic 14-year-old with ADD or the gamer stuck somewhere in between who's bored with all this talking and just wants to get to the next big battle royale. And none of the NPCs struck me as particularly interesting - they were all pretty much your regular action movie/Star Wars staples. Your party were a lot better, true, but even then their interaction with you as you supposedly "developed" wasn't half as interesting or as meaningful as most of the reviews made it out to be.

KOTOR just got a lot of acclaim because it managed to present a reasonable story that had one standout twist, some decent characterisation and was - for the most part - far more entertaining than the two prequels, and did a reasonable job of dressing it up (though it wasn't half as visually or sonically dazzling as people intimated either. Too much tileset stuff, too many bland and cookie-cutter locations and NPCs, etc). This induced a hell of a lot of people to fall over in a faint and shower it with praise, but it's just clear of an 8 at most. Not the second coming of RPGs, not an absolute must-play, not anything especially revolutionary.

There we go, I'm done. Oh, I am so six months ago. /embarrassed

[scarredbyvideogames]

Adam -

I told you it wasnt that great now didnt I?Its quite good though I think - you'l find it improves when you get off Tarris (sp?).

That first part of the game puts a lot of people off - its quite dull.Stll,although it does gets better - a lot better - it never reaches the dizzy heights of 'great' (imo blah blah).Plough through it a bit longer though - you may start to enjoy it more.

One bugbear for me throughout the game was the choppy framerate.At least you managed to get it up and running quite quickly - took me two days.Hopefully the next one will be more polished.

[SuperBrother]

Eight Rooks speak plenty big truth.

As we discussed on another thread it's a fairly basic, pedestrian game dressed up in super shiny Starwarsness (tm), certainly a big dissapointment compared to BioWares earlier work but given the dearth of decent RPG games on the big green box it was given more attention than if it had been released on say the PS2.

A solid title worthy of 8/10 though, no doubt.

[Prine]

10/10 for me. Totally worthy of the praise, my game of this generation.

Finished it 3 times:

1st Dark Jedi
2nd Light Jedi
3rd Light Jedi Female (playing around with Carths emotion was fun)

[JRMacumber]

Actually, SuperBrother, you and Eight Rooks couldn't be more wrong if it was your last name. Not that it matters. But hey, that's life.

[SuperBrother]

Utter ****ing nonsence Macumber and you know it. What are your RPG gaming credentials and what gives you the right to say we are wrong witout any effort at justification?

[JRMacumber]

Credentials? Well, damn... Let's see... I first cut my teeth with Wizardry and Bard's Tale. I then moved on to pen and paper Dungeons & Dragons for a time, and started to think of electronic RPGs as just bastardizations of the "real" thing. Then I got into Ultima, and that brought me back some. On down the line I've played Might And Magic, Arena, the Baldur's Gate series, Morrowind, Icewind Dale 1 and 2 (with the expansions, o' course), Dungeon Siege, Fallout 1 and 2, and other assorted TSR licensed games that have fallen to the wayside of my memory. I've dabbled a bit in MMORPGs like Everquest, but I prefer the more focused single player game experience. On the tabletop I've continued to play D&D, now in the 3rd Edition ruleset, as well as Star Frontiers, Traveller, and Pendragon. In my teens I even created my own game, and at the time I thought it was great, but later years showed it to be merely the work of a young kid who had more passion that talent. I've tried a few Japanese RPGs here and there, but they've not been to my taste, though I wouldn't say anything against them. I'm intensely curious to play Tales Of Symphonia. Upcoming I'm looking forward to Jade Empire, Fable, and Sith Lords.

Anyway, I hope that's enough.

And as for my right to say you're wrong, that just comes with the freedom that the Net provides. I couldn't have played an RPG before and my life and still had the right to say it. But, given my long history with Western RPGs, both on paper and electronic, I think I know a little bit about what I'm talking about. You're free to disagree with me, as I'm sure you will, but that still doesn't change my opinion. So, we're at a stalemate. You enjoy what you enjoy, I'll enjoy what I enjoy, and we'll both be happy.

[Commander Marklar]

Now now, JRM, you know none of that counts because that's Western RPG experience, right?

(note smiley, I know you're alright fella - just ignore the FF-hardcore wannabes)

[SuperBrother]

I can see the root of the disagreement then because when I say RPG I mean Squaresoft, Enix, Namco and Sega.

IMO Western RPG's are lacklustre and soulless, which if you take away the Star Wars is my problem with KOTOR but we'll leave it at that.

[JRMacumber]

* snort *

Yeah, let's leave it at that.