Dead Rising 2 (Xbox 360/PS3)

[Dogg Thang]

Sooooo... just a word on the NTSC-UK review. A nine. Okay, a score is just a score. But is Dead Rising 2 really "a breath of fresh air"? I felt, for all its merits (and you'll see going back in the thread that I'm one who enjoyed it) that the "air" here is rather stale. It was played extremely safe and yet without that new factor and, often, character of the original.

"By systematically correcting each and every flaw in the first game Blue Castle have perfected the formula that Capcom pioneered." Perfected? That's a lofty claim. Is DR2 perfect? Well that's actually one of the main areas of difference between how the game played for me and what's actually written in the review - the review seems to make no mention of some of the many issues in the game, or where things didn't quite work as well in practice.

For example, the save system. Mention is made of the multiple slots. But no mention of the issue many came across here - that you can run into a boss fight with no warning whatsoever and no save. So, totally unprepared, you can find yourself slaughtered and you're back to wherever it was you last saved (which, without warning, is unlikely to be just before that boss fight).

Of the weapon combinations. Mention is made of the 50 different combinations, which are cool. But no mention of that being fifty among a massive amount of items and that most combinations you try won't work even if, in theory, they would work the same way as other working combinations. So, in reality, the only combinations I imagine most people will ever use more than once are the ones that are conveniently placed in and around the maintenance rooms.

And, most of all, no mention at all of how the game completely falls apart in a stinky, seemingly very lazy Overtime mode.

It's not that I disagree with the positives in the review. In fact, I agree with most of the points that are made. But sweeping past the negatives means it doesn't seem to reflect the game I played. For me, the improvements are not leaps, but baby steps. Steps in one direction far outweighed by steps in the other direction, simply by the removal of the thrill of being something new. Given the potential of Dead Rising, 2 seems to be about as unambitious as possible. Am I wrong?

[Myth]

I think the save system adds a lot of tension and I personally wouldn't have them changed. If anything I'd make it harder to get to the toilets.

[Duncan James Waugh]

For example, the save system. Mention is made of the multiple slots. But no mention of the issue many came across here - that you can run into a boss fight with no warning whatsoever and no save. So, totally unprepared, you can find yourself slaughtered and you're back to wherever it was you last saved (which, without warning, is unlikely to be just before that boss fight).

As Myth mentioned save rooms are all over the place, even in the safe room and on the main shortcut, you don't have to go out of your way to get to them. If a player has been silly enough not to save reasonably regularly then they have only themselves to blame.

Of the weapon combinations. Mention is made of the 50 different combinations, which are cool. But no mention of that being fifty among a massive amount of items and that most combinations you try won't work even if, in theory, they would work the same way as other working combinations. So, in reality, the only combinations I imagine most people will ever use more than once are the ones that are conveniently placed in and around the maintenance rooms.

We found a good number of items by trying to combine items that seemed to make sense. But in reality you only make ones regularly that you have the cards for else you don't get the XP. If a player just sticks to the simpler weapons they miss out on a lot of the most rewarding in terms of XP gains.

And, most of all, no mention at all of how the game completely falls apart in a stinky, seemingly very lazy Overtime mode.

How so?

I thought the first game had some nice ideas but was pretty broken in several areas design, the controls made the psychopaths a nightmare for example.

[Dogg Thang]

Gah, there's a comments thread now! A lovely mod might consider moving these few posts into that one?

As Myth mentioned save rooms are all over the place, even in the safe room and on the main shortcut, you don't have to go out of your way to get to them. If a player has been silly enough not to save reasonably regularly then they have only themselves to blame.

This is rather unfair to the gamers who have run in to this, given how the bosses play out in the game. Due to the time-specific encounters, a simple journey from one area to another, a journey you just made a few minutes ago, can suddenly turn into a cut scene and unexpected boss encounter. No warning, no prior save. If you're not ready, it's insta-death. Much like playing Shadowgate back in the day, except worse because it can be an area you just explored safely. Yes, there are save points everywhere but, nevertheless, this scenario exists and the frustration is a fault of the game, not the player (don't hate the player, hate the game).

But in reality you only make ones regularly that you have the cards for else you don't get the XP. If a player just sticks to the simpler weapons they miss out on a lot of the most rewarding in terms of XP gains.

Yes, the reality of this system makes it not as much the brilliant feature as it seems. As you say, you'll want to stick to ones for XP - which includes the spiked bat, one of the first combos in the game, the defiler or claw gloves. With the heavy time restrictions in the game, traipsing around the place for the more adventurous combos isn't something worth doing more than once, if at all, given the amount of combinations that don't work. Just, for me personally, this system is a great idea but doesn't quite play out as fun as it should.

And on Overtime....

How so?

Because it was a

->Open Spoiler<-

lonely, long, basic fetch quest that had none of the possibility of discoveries that the rest of the game had. It was like the game fizzling out apologetically rather than a big finish. It actually felt incomplete.

All just personal opinion, of course. But, for me, the review rightly mentioned many of the positives but seemed to ignore some of the issues that, from this thread, I can see that many had with the game - and I think it's unfair to blame the players for quirks in the game system. And, for me, as I said in the thread above, improvements were baby steps. I probably said it very early in this thread but they felt to me like they were shooting for average from the start.

[Duncan James Waugh]

This is rather unfair to the gamers who have run in to this, given how the bosses play out in the game.

Again, if a player isn't carrying a couple of items to deal with bosses, it's their own fault for not being prepared, there's plenty of item slots. Having to repeat 10 minutes of playtime when you die in this manner, which will only happen to the average player a small handful of times really isn't that big a deal and this certainly isn't the only game in the world to make you replay some previous portion of the game on death.

Yes, the reality of this system makes it not as much the brilliant feature as it seems. As you say, you'll want to stick to ones for XP - which includes the spiked bat, one of the first combos in the game, the defiler or claw gloves. With the heavy time restrictions in the game,

The time restrictions are far laxer than in the first game and the NPC AI is capable enough to allow you to explore whilst still leading a group of them. The spiked baseball bat is actually quite a poor XP gainer, although the knife gloves are very efficient. Rellying on the spiked bat overly will see a player levelling up more slowly than they need to.

And on Overtime....

But the first game's overtime mode was predominantly made up of a long fetch quest too.

[Dogg Thang]

The review isn't for the first game, it's for the sequel. Having problems or negatives in the first game does not discount them here. So tight times in the first does not take away the downside associated with the weapon combos here. Nor does the original game's overtime mode make this overtime mode any better. Though I should point out that the review states that the game corrects every flaw of the first.

But I guess that does put the review into perspective, as it does mostly seem to cover features seen to be improved from the first game, rather than the game as a whole. I hadn't really spotted that, so perhaps I simply went into it with a flawed preconception. I was thinking more broadly and I don't mean to pick at the review and I certainly wouldn't mean to criticise your view (I agree with the main points) or writing, which is clearly excellent and you rock for writing reviews here.

[Duncan James Waugh]

I'm not taking any offence in anyway just debating a few points . I may have phrased my responses wrong as I thought you were saying the original game was better for the following reasons, hence why I kept comparing number 2 to number 1. With regards the review it should be viewed as independant from the first game, I merely tried to highlight than it did improve on the original formula.

[JSR]

I think the save system adds a lot of tension and I personally wouldn't have them changed. If anything I'd make it harder to get to the toilets.

I totally agree with this. That was the source of most of the tension in the first game. Whether or not you should run back and save, or should you gamble that you'll survive the masses of zombies ahead of you for a little while longer. And the thing is; you're actually supposed to die. When you die, you have the option of starting over, with your earned XP, and - more importantly - with your earned knowledge. Running through the game without any restarts feels wrong to me. The player is meant to be defeated, and learn from his mistakes, before trying again.

[JazzFunk]

Quick quezzie for those in the know. Picked up 360 Dead Rising 2 and all the DLC pretty cheap on 360 over Halloween but I notice the DLC cases kind of 'interfere' with the main save of DR2 and vice versa.

What order should I play them in, Case Zero, Case West, Dead Rising 2, or summat else????

[importaku]

Hmmi dont remember the saves interferring with the cases they just unlocked extra stuff. I remember the case zero gave you a few extra combo cards for the full game.

Case zero is pretty short do that first then do 2, then after that do case west as it's kind of a spinoff one.

Dead rising off the record is pretty fun too i love the amusement park area they added to the game & playing as frank with the photo mechanic added back in is great too.

[JazzFunk]

^Cheers Importaku, I'll go that route (damn my gaming OCD, seems to make me procrastinate playing certain games, even for YEARS, reason why I only just played thru Resi 5!!!!)

Yeah, got Off The Record on PS3 for ?5.50 thru PS+ last month, my gaming OCD doesn't apply here as it's on a completely different format(!)

[ETC]

Zero, DR2, Case West is the order but you would be better off sound DR2 and forgetting the other 2 they are ****e

[JazzFunk]

^OCD again, bought the f*ckers, have to get around to justifying the purchase!

[JSR]

I thought Zero was better then the main game actually. Much more interesting and varied locations. You got more intimate with the environments, where each building and area felt different. And going down to the end of the road to gather the medical supplies seemed like a real tense task, as there was only one way - a narrow one to - in, and it was crowded with zombies. Opposed to the full game, with it's many samey, open rooms, where the zombies rarely manage to feel imposing by their volume.

[QualityChimp]

Given a choice, would you choose Zero or Off The Record?