L.A. Noire 360/PS3

[toythatkills]

Youre really starting to sound like you dont know what youre on about at all and are just arguing for the hell of it.

I'm arguing because you don't seem to understand the concept of skill. Skill doesn't have to be ninja reflexes, which is something you can't seem to get your head around. Again, because you simply aren't skilled at this game. If you were, you'd be able to see it.

The fact that you're not means you're never going to be able to understand how player skill affects things in this game, and so there's really no point continuing further. I think that anyone that has bothered to read this exchange has quite enough to go on to draw conclusions from it, so I'll stop now.

Please don't post anything stupid now, because I would really like to stop, but if you make some ridiculous comment in your defence, I'll be forced to reply to it. I don't want to reply to it, so just don't, okay?

[Pavey]

Get a room.

[rmoxon]

I'm arguing because you don't seem to understand the concept of skill. Skill doesn't have to be ninja reflexes, which is something you can't seem to get your head around. Again, because you simply aren't skilled at this game. If you were, you'd be able to see it.

The fact that you're not means you're never going to be able to understand how player skill affects things in this game, and so there's really no point continuing further. I think that anyone that has bothered to read this exchange has quite enough to go on to draw conclusions from it, so I'll stop now.

Please don't post anything stupid now, because I would really like to stop, but if you make some ridiculous comment in your defence, I'll be forced to reply to it. I don't want to reply to it, so just don't, okay?

You know youre probabaly the most condescending person I have ever talked too online, which is saying alot.

Anyway, I know what skill is, I know what the word means, I know that there are many different types of skills in this world, no matter how much you talk down to me, it doesnt make me actualy stupid.

It also doesnt change the fact that there are really no specific skills required to play L.A. Noire through to the end as the developer intended. All it requires is that you can use a controller, thats the only skill you need. So I will give you that as a skill, but thats it, the game tells you what to do and you do it with the controller, there are no other skills required, and you dont have to be good with a controller, my mum could complete the game.

[toythatkills]

See what you've made me do? Christ.

I've said about five times that getting to the end of the game isn't where the skill is. I agree with you. There's no skill in getting to the of the game. The skill is in the journey, it's in how you get to the end. Over and over again I've said that. Over and over again. How are you missing it? It's not just about getting to the end of the game, the skill is in getting to the end of the game by doing well. Some people can do it, some people can't, therefore there's skill.

EDIT: Do I get an award for being the most condescending person you've ever talked to online? I'd like to think so.

[rmoxon]

See what you've made me do? Christ.

I've said about five times that getting to the end of the game isn't where the skill is. I agree with you. There's no skill in getting to the of the game. The skill is in the journey, it's in how you get to the end. Over and over again I've said that. Over and over again. How are you missing it? It's not just about getting to the end of the game, though, the skill is in getting to the end of the game by doing well. Some people can do it, some people can't, therefore there's skill.

But everyone will ultimatley get to the end of the journey the same way, it doesnt require skill, picking evidence off the floor does not require skill. Look, throw somthing on the floor right now, and bend down and pick it up, see how skillfull you feel. Its no different doing that in the game. Picking up a bunch of stuff isnt a skill.

I'm not missing anything, I'm really not.

[toythatkills]

But everyone will ultimatley get to the end of the journey the same way...

My point is that no, they won't

There are multiple paths through each case. You'll always get to the end, but you won't do it the same way I did.

[rmoxon]

My point is that no, they won't

There are multiple paths through each case. You'll always get to the end, but you won't do it the same way I did.

thats not what I meant, what i mean is the things you do, such as picking up evidence and then selecting question choices, they arent about skill, they are about pressing a button. If you think you are the best button presser in the world thats awesome, but I'm telling you now, its doubtful you are better than me or anyone else at this game, anyone can pick up things they find. The only thing this game will test of a person is their patience, if you dont look around enough you will probabaly miss somthing, but thats not about skill, its patience.

[toythatkills]

Look, you're missing the point entirely and I think you're doing it on purpose, so no more.

[rmoxon]

Look, you're missing the point entirely and I think you're doing it on purpose, so no more.

I dont feel you have really said anything that has a point. You have an opinion on the game and I disagree with it, I dont think there is much weight to what youve been saying at all, but its just my opinion.

And you can go anytime you want, I cant stop you. You are the one who started this by saying I was rubbish at the game just becuase I didnt think the interogations were very well put together afterall. Which incidently doesnt even make sense really, as I have said I did pretty well throughout the game, but it wasnt becuase I was skilled in any way, it was just guess work, I went with my gutt really and just got lucky more often than not. Others will do the same and not be so lucky I imagine becuase the game is set up in the way it is.

[Brad]

That's enough now chaps. This is going nowhere.

[nonny]

Skipping a few replies here...

Stainboy. I'd leave the assists on until you get to the traffic desk. The first couple of missions/cases are just to get you used to the mechanics of the game and they actually tell you the answers in interrogating as well. Once you're clear of those cases I'd turn them off and see how you get on.

[nonny]

But everyone will ultimatley get to the end of the journey the same way, it doesnt require skill, picking evidence off the floor does not require skill. Look, throw somthing on the floor right now, and bend down and pick it up, see how skillfull you feel. Its no different doing that in the game. Picking up a bunch of stuff isnt a skill.

I'm not missing anything, I'm really not.

I can see both your points on this but this debate about skill is missing a few vital points. The skill required in this game is having the ability to scour a crime scene for all clues before moving on (and if assists are off more skill is required here) coupled with the ability to then understand when to use/present these clues as evidence in interrogations...

The game will of course let you get through to the conclusion without having much skill at all, you'll just be sent down more obscure channels in order to achieve the closure of the case. So skill isnt a necessary required to complete the game per se, but to complete the game with 5 star ratings on each case really does. So there is a balance in there, but some people just dont perceive that as skill where others do.

I personally do notice the interrogation system being a bit broken in places but for the most part it does work provided you pay close attention to the persons reactions in context to what you already know to be true, and what they are saying in relation to the topic. The doubt option is sometimes a bit odd given Phelps wild reactions now and then, but I find when you're taking the correct path (i.e. on the way to 5 stars) it makes much more sense. I guess he gets a bit worked up when his detective skills arent rewarding him as he'd like...

At the moment I've got all the traffic cases and half the homocide cases 5 starred. I've actually gone back and repeated some cases 2-3 times to observe the varying results (Im reviewing this...) and to say they've been an eye opener is an understatement.

[rmoxon]

I can see both your points on this but this debate about skill is missing a few vital points. The skill required in this game is having the ability to scour a crime scene for all clues before moving on (and if assists are off more skill is required here) coupled with the ability to then understand when to use/present these clues as evidence in interrogations...

The game will of course let you get through to the conclusion without having much skill at all, you'll just be sent down more obscure channels in order to achieve the closure of the case. So skill isnt a necessary required to complete the game per se, but to complete the game with 5 star ratings on each case really does. So there is a balance in there, but some people just dont perceive that as skill where others do.

I personally do notice the interrogation system being a bit broken in places but for the most part it does work provided you pay close attention to the persons reactions in context to what you already know to be true, and what they are saying in relation to the topic. The doubt option is sometimes a bit odd given Phelps wild reactions now and then, but I find when you're taking the correct path (i.e. on the way to 5 stars) it makes much more sense. I guess he gets a bit worked up when his detective skills arent rewarding him as he'd like...

At the moment I've got all the traffic cases and half the homocide cases 5 starred. I've actually gone back and repeated some cases 2-3 times to observe the varying results (Im reviewing this...) and to say they've been an eye opener is an understatement.

Well my point was that scouring an area for clues does not require skill, they are generaly just laying around (and of course withe the assists on the game even vibrates for you when you are around them). Even with assists off theres really not much to the clue finding, you can do it at your own pace and as long as you basicaly cover the whole area you wont miss anything. The only way to miss clues is if you rush and dont check everywhere.

I just dont consider checking everywhere to require skill really, I dont think Thoroughness is a skill.

Theres nothing wrong with games that dont require skill, It wasnt a complaint about the game in itself, I was simply replying to the fact that he said I was rubbish at the game, I dont belive you can be rubbish at the game, if someone were not to collect all the clues they wouldnt be rubbish at the game, they would just be lazy.

[nonny]

I think meticulously covering a crime scene is a skill mate...

I only say this because going back a replaying cases I've found things I've missed beforehand and some of them were key elements to deriving the correct answers in some interrogations. This and the fact I wasnt rushing anything, I just didnt spot them first time (it's a much better game with the assists off). So perhaps skill isnt the right word here but it's a definite requirement to achieve the best ratings on cases but the structure of the game will let you progress with leniency here... but at the cost of a worse score.

So far I've been getting around 4 stars per case on first attempt but since turning off assists I've had one horrendous case where I completed it with 2 stars. So yes I would say it is possible to be rubbish at this game. I'm actually playing it with my mrs listening in on the whole proceedings as she's found it absorbing to spectate. Call it good cop, bad cop (Im the bad one). What I've found is in some situations she's actually spotted something I've missed completely, stuff that when put into context means more than I took on face value.

It's a simple thing, but what I am saying is... as a detective she clearly has more skill than me.

My main complaints about the game so far are that in places it is too rigid and the mechanics dont do as good a job as they need to for the game to flow more convincingly. I would also prefer some more free-form clues and detective work to be allowed outside of crime-scenes and following a paper-trail... as it is sometimes this works and really works well and other times it can be jarringly strange when the game plays you a segment of conversation that in your head you had pre-empted would go completely differently.

The good news here is when you 5 star a case everything makes perfect sense.

[Myth]

Nonny hits the nail on the head there for me.