Ni no kuni: Wrath of the white witch PS3 / Ni no kuni: The jet black mage DS

[importaku]

All RPGs require grinding, yes even the FF games required it there is no way you would get to the end by just going from one location to the next without stopping to do some levelling up. It's a staple of all RPG games, ninokuni was slightly different for me as although you have to get all grindy i liked the battle system so much that it really didnt feel like a chore battling again & again.

If the RPG you are playing doesnt have a fighting system you like then it feels a major chore to level up. Keroro RPG was another that had a great fighting system so i never noticed the grinding at all. Mario RPG only kept me going because it had Mario in it, thankfully the battling system was vastly refined as the series went on, when Mario finally teamed up with Luigi it became allsorts of fun.

[nakamura]

Final Fantasy games certainly don't require grinding. I had completed the majority of the franchise without bothering to grind at all. I am currently at the end of the World of Balance in FF6 without grinding a tiny bit and I haven't died once. Final Fantasy games kept the plot flowing nicely without all the other stuff getting in the way.

[importaku]

I must be seriously playing them wrong then as i died so many times when going into a new area & having monsters beat the crap out of me. Only played 3, 7, 9, 10 & 13 and all of those i never just walked from one location to the next without having to level up as if you do the mosters are just too powerful to survive.

Then again i might just be **** at them, the thought has occured to me

[nakamura]

To be honest Importaku, I was even shocked myself how far I have progressed in FF6 with very little effort. The games just seem to give you enough random battles to level you up suitably for each situation.

Chrono Cross is another example of how to do it right. No random battles at all.

[Synthesthesia]

Surely having to go through the random battles that have nothing to do with the actual story IS grinding though? Since I'm assuming you can run from those battles?

[nakamura]

No. Grinding is deliberately levelling up because the game places you in a situation where you do not have enough xp to progress.
You expect a certain amount of battles in a role playing game.

['Press Start']

To be honest Importaku, I was even shocked myself how far I have progressed in FF6 with very little effort. The games just seem to give you enough random battles to level you up suitably for each situation.

Chrono Cross is another example of how to do it right. No random battles at all.

I think this is it. The amount of random battles and exp from mini bosses and big bosses saw you through most FF's. If you wanted the rare stuff and to take on the ultima weapons etc then some grinding was required. But not grinding against the stone just to progress. I found searching whole areas and going for every chest allowed you to level up nicely without actively grinding.

I also agree with Importaku, the battle system is fundamental to your enjoyment. At first I was really put off by the amount of familiars and the fact they reset back to level 1 (more grinding). I think I am over the hump now and although there are still rubbish little missions like

->Open Spoiler<-

Just got told to go back to the desert and get a sun familiar because my quicken growth spell is not good enough. Had it on me fortunately. It is this cheapness I dislike, going over old ground padding

I remember almost chucking Vagrant Story across the room as I just did not get the battle system. I gave it one more shot and it is up there in my top 10 RPGs.

Chrono Cross was mentioned so I must bring the out.

[Golgo]

If you have no patience then mario RPG is going to destroy your ass lol, hours of tedious grinding are going to be ahead for you.

Depends what Mario RPG. Super Mario RPG on SNES (and WiiWare) is the most delightfully well-paced, structured and grind-free RPG experiences I've ever encountered...apart from Chrono Trigger.

['Press Start']

Depends what Mario RPG. Super Mario RPG on SNES (and WiiWare) is the most delightfully well-paced, structured and grind-free RPG experiences I've ever encountered...apart from Chrono Trigger.

I remember Paper Mario on Gamecube being a dirty little end to end fetch quest.

[Synthesthesia]

I'd rather have my levelling done through sidequests/finding chests than just random encounters thrown at me while I'm walking around. I don't mind either though. I haven't had to grind at all on Ni No Kuni I just do all of the errands/ bounties.

[Golgo]

I remember Paper Mario on Gamecube being a dirty little end to end fetch quest.

I never got to play '1000 Yr Door', but most retropectives I've read claim it's great. I'm sure you're right, though. Paper Mario on N64 was already a drag.

['Press Start']

I never got to play '1000 Yr Door', but most retropectives I've read claim it's great. I'm sure you're right, though. Paper Mario on N64 was already a drag.

It is great but it's longevity is stretched out by some 'end to end' fetch quests.

[S3M]

Anyway, I've decided to shelve this in order to play some other RPGs. I'm not convinced this is my fault. I love the RPG genre. Perhaps I have been spoiled by Xenoblade. Next on my list are Mario RPG and Albert Odyssey on the Saturn. I'll try them and see how I feel.

I feel I must impart my RPG knowledge to the many lesser informed RPG gamers.

Seems like you need schooling in the way of the RPG Sketcz, That said I agree with some of your points, Ni no Kuni is a very grindy RPG, more so than many others. The familars have some balancing issues and the promotion system is very backward with the stats of the familars decreasing on leveling up and taking 30 plus levels to get back to where they were stats wise.

As with Rogue Galaxy some sections of the game are drawn out to increase length, but it is still a very good RPG. Rogue Galaxy was crazy any way, you would get random battles as you walked around town.

I'm 60 hours into Ni no Kuni and am really enjoying it but I have had to do the odd bit of power leveling, I did changed the familars about but I stopped doing that as they were too weak. I'm currently

->Open Spoiler<-

Collecting the three stones for mornstar, have the pirate one, currently at the yeti town Yule

Thank you for the Suikoden spolier by the way I have yet to play through the first game that said 15 hours to finish it means you have just dashed through the game and failed to see even half of it however. I played liked 15 hours of the excellent Suikoden 2 and had barely touched the game.

Mario RPG is a very easy and light RPG to play very good and I would say it's better than all the Paper Mario game. Sketcz do you have a US or Japanese version of Albert Odyssey on Saturn? As I can tell you now that game is very grindy the US version less so than the Japanese one, I enjoyed it but some locations are like mazes to navigate and the random battles do not stop. Worthing reading up on as well as there is a few hidden cutscenes and secret battles in game you can miss, I missed quite a rare item because of this. That reminds me I need to pick up the two SNES Albert Odyssey games.

As for Chrono Cross, all I can say is Square never made a rubbish semi-sequel to Chrono Trigger. Still least it was a damn sight better than the sequels to my beloved Shining series after Shining Force III. There will be a special place in hell for the staff who worked on any of those games.

[Sketcz]

S3M accuses me of not knowing RPGs.

Thank you for the Suikoden spolier by the way I have yet to play through the first game that said 15 hours to finish it means you have just dashed through the game and failed to see even half of it however. I played liked 15 hours of the excellent Suikoden 2 and had barely touched the game.

I'm sorry about the spoiler. I was considering putting spoiler tags around it, but given the game is... over 15 years old? I thought it wouldn't be too much of a problem. Besides, it happens so near the start, it's not like I spoiled the ending. Again, apologies.

I've finished the first three Suikoden games. The first takes about 15 hours to get all 108 stars. It's quite a short RPG. On a second playthrough, knowing what to do, I managed to get it down to about 10-11 hours. If you want breezy, play the first Suikoden. The second Suikoden took me around 45 hours to complete. Much more epic and my favourite in the series. The third Suikoden about 60 hours. I didn't like it because as I played through each of the three scenarios I was forced to play through the same environments again. Also, the story became silly towards the end.

['Press Start']

delete.