GBA - GC Connectivity

[Commander Marklar]

And if you lot insist on bugging me because of that one example, then just try counting up the cost for a 4 player game of Zelda: 4 Swords of FF:CC, then try to tell me it's insignificant. You could buy a new PC for that amount of dosh :\

pfft, you could buy a new pc for the cost of any of the systems, regardless of multiplayer impact. plus, i've never laid that cost out, i haven't had too with people having their own gbas, etc...

i dunno, in some twisted reality, nintendo never bothered with this stuff and the forumites are saying "yea, it'd be really cool if we could link the systems up in some way", etc...

[Tom Salter]

*sigh* anyway, like I've said in the last 2 posts, ignore the cost factor...

And it IS like they are forcing you to buy these games, FF:CC could have been designed far better so that 4 players could have joined in on just the pads, rather than having each player have a GBA. Surely todays developers aren't *that* thick?

And it's not just these games either, it's all games that feature GBA-GC connectivity. I mean, anyone tried Sonic Adventure DX? That's gotta be the most piss-poor afterthought of a mini-game I've ever seen.

Developers just seem to be using it to give their game a new feature, rather than cleverly integrating it with the main game. They're trying to earn that sticker that says "omfg GBA-GC connectivity" on the box, without thinking clearly about it. I could almost give 4 Swords that merit...but when I consider that it could have been done in other ways then it just doesn't quite cut it

[Commander Marklar]

"omfg GBA-GC connectivity"

Yea, because every game has it You'll be saying "ignore my post" next

And dude, they're forcing you to buy what now? Like a couple of games out of a hundred or so?? If you don't like it, don't do it!

...but when I consider that it could have been done in other ways then it just doesn't quite cut it

pfft, like every game ever makes good use of the technology on offer

imho, extra features is better than no features at all.

[taurusnipple]

I reckon with the DS we can see better use of the connectivity features Nintendo are trying to shove down us. I was just thinking, what if the next Splinter Cell used the DS as a keypad or as a lock picking device, the stylus acts as your pick, the screen reacts to your medling with the lock. I can see those type of features pulling the gamer further into the realism and I like the sound of that.

[Ady]

Getting setup for online play costs more than a GBA link cable.

And if you're not multiplayer-ready, then why would you want to buy multiplayer games?

And it IS like they are forcing you to buy these games, FF:CC could have been designed far better so that 4 players could have joined in on just the pads, rather than having each player have a GBA. Surely todays developers aren't *that* thick?

With that rationale, you could dismiss every lightgun or dancemat game for the same reasons.

[Ady]

I reckon with the DS we can see better use of the connectivity features Nintendo are trying to shove down us. I was just thinking, what if the next Splinter Cell used the DS as a keypad or as a lock picking device, the stylus acts as your pick, the screen reacts to your medling with the lock. I can see those type of features pulling the gamer further into the realism and I like the sound of that.

Like non-Nintendo developers are ever going to get more imaginative than a map screen...

[JibberX]

Its a bit like saying you don't like Gun games because you need a gun...

[rjpageuk]

So it is fair to say now that we have dismissed the cost factor of the arguement as being unfair? As we have already established (IMO) you arent supposed to buy all this stuff, you are supposed to already have it. If you dont, then the game isnt for you. Its no different to all the people that claimed you had to buy both Pokemon games to collect all the Pokemon - this completely misses the point - you are supposed to trade them with friends! In the same way with these 2-4 player link up games, you are supposed to already have friends with GBAs. If you dont, then the game simply isnt for you.

Anyhow, I wanted to concentrate on some of the other points you made in your post.

Firstly your arguement of 4 Swords being less cohesive due to differing graphical styles between devices is a fair point, although I thought 4 Swords did a particuarly good job of covering this up as there wasnt a lot of graphical difference between the two devices - sure you got a few fancy effects on the GC you didnt get on the GBA, but in the main I felt pretty immersed, and it really felt like you were going into a building as you popped on on another screen. If anything I think this immersed me more into the game. I did find often I would lose track of what screen I should be looking at briefly, but I got used to this pretty quickly.

FF:CC on the other hand I felt was all around a much poorer utilisation of the system and it did feel stuck on and pretty pointless to me. Whenever anyone in a party was using their GBA (at least when I played it) everyone else would stop and let them finish before continuing with the game (otherwise as Tom put it, you got batty-raped or couldnt move about the screen properly anyhow as when another party memeber was in conversation). This completely defeats the object of the link up feature. The same wasnt true at all in 4 swords and I felt using the screens for buildings etc kept certain game things hidden from the others, as well as keeping the game flowing.

I think the other points you make such as the costume in Metroid, and various other minor things - I dont see these as an incentive to buy the game at all. They are more just a bonus for those that already have the kit. It is no different to the Pikmin trophy in SSBM - you needed a Pikmin save on your card to get it. This isnt just Nintendo forcing people to buy Pikmin, its simply a little, minor bonus you get if you happen to own all the stuff.

The connectivity feature can be used well (as in 4 swords) IMO to keep the game flowing. I think as you said it can work really well when you need to keep things hidden from each other (this worked a little with treasure collecting in 4 swords, and also apparently this works well in Pacman Vs, although I havent tried it).

I must admit, I dont see a lot of life in the feature (from an economics point of view) as the inclusion of the mode instantly alienates such a large proportion of the market, and for little benefit. Sure 4 swords is a better game for its implimentation, but in order to appeal to a much bigger market, a sacrifice in that you needed to wait on screen for each other wouldnt have been too hard to bear, and I am positive the game would have been more profitable if Nintendo had have gone this route.

[Brats]

It's interesting the points that are now being made about FF:CC. In a previous thread like this one, I stated that I thought the link up was unnecessary and a non-link up otion should have been included. At the time everyone seemed to disagree with me.

Now it seems that not only do some people think it is unnecessary, they think its make the actual experience worse .

As a concept, I'm all in favour of link up. However, so far in practice it has been a little underwhelming in all but three games. However, I believe that this is ultimately down to the limitations of the GBA, both technically and from a gameplay perspective (let's face it, a GBA is not a great controller).

The idea of link up using a DS has much more potential imo.

[JibberX]

WiFi linkup should make things a little more interesting, also making it so that the induviduals displays have more pzazz might help it too. I keep saying they should let the Cube do the work and display the image on the linked up machine, I am sure you could get the bandwidth to do that.

In terms of a gameplay device I think it works admirably, admitted its a bit naff with FF:CC but in reality the game would not work without the additional screen, whereas 4swords its purely designed for that, and works fantastically.

I have two GBAs and all the bits through the natural flow of things, not just for linkage.

[Tetsuo]

Final Fantasy: CC is one of the most refreshing titles I've played this year.

I had more fun playing Pacman Vs and Zelda: 4 Swords + than I can remember playing on a console in a very long time. Utter brilliance.

Even when something original and different comes around, (that's what we want in today's dire market, right?) it takes a beating from the masses. Their loss.

Nintendo, eh? Still, you've got to give 'em credit for trying :P

[Tom Salter]

It's interesting the points that are now being made about FF:CC. In a previous thread like this one, I stated that I thought the link up was unnecessary and a non-link up otion should have been included. At the time everyone seemed to disagree with me.

Now it seems that not only do some people think it is unnecessary, they think its make the actual experience worse .

As a concept, I'm all in favour of link up. However, so far in practice it has been a little underwhelming in all but three games. However, I believe that this is ultimately down to the limitations of the GBA, both technically and from a gameplay perspective (let's face it, a GBA is not a great controller).

The idea of link up using a DS has much more potential imo.

OMFG I agree with Brats on something here :P

I don't see link up with the DS having more potential, a lot of the problems will still exist. However, think of the DS as a "GBA and GC Connection Kit In One (tm)". I think the games where Nintendo are trying to utilise the GBA as a controller/screen are maybe a testbed for the Nintendo DS, as essentially, that's what the link up is doing.

Imagine a new version of 4 Swords, with 4 player link up. Your top screen is the "common" screen, and the lower screen is your "player specific" screen. Because it would be running on identical hardware, and you wouldn't have to keep re-focusing from telly to GBA, it'd be fantastic.

Nintendo, eh? Still, you've got to give 'em credit for trying :P

Indeedy do, but most times they fook up

[Tetsuo]

Quote:
Nintendo, eh? Still, you've got to give 'em credit for trying :P

Indeedy do, but most times they fook up

I was being sarcastic.

[Brats]

OMFG I agree with Brats on something here :P

We both thought JSR was overrated too. Go us!

[Tom Salter]

Oh aye, I thought I was alone on that one :P

I was being sarcastic.

Can you say Virtual Boy? Apart from that they've hardly tried to innovate really.