What was Sega's policy regarding 60hz modes on Dreamcast?

[Peet]

Gunbird 2 is another Capcom release that doesn't support RGB.

The Grandia 2 thing sounds weird though.

[yashiro]

Add Street Fighter 3 : Third Strike to that list.

On the plus side the PAL version supports RGB and also has a 60Hz option.
If I recall this also applies to Alpha 3 too. Perhaps someone else could confirm it.

It's wierd you mention 3rd Strike as I've heard that before yet both my Us and JPN versions boot fine via RGB.

Oh, and all PAL DC games support RGB.

Weird indeed. Perhaps its machine related or maybe you're actually displaying s-video via scart and not RGB?

JAP SF3 outputs no picture via an official rgb lead on my UK machine. (boot disk). I also borrowed a 'dodgy version' from a friend and this too also fails to show any picture.

PAL SF3 is fine though, and a cracking game it is too.

[Lyris]

Unreal Tournament (USA) doesn't work with RGB.
I have to use a special copy that comes on a green bottomed disc to play it properly. They asked for it.

Grandia 2 does indeed have problems when forced to 60hz. Other oddities include Tokyo Highway Challenge (aka Tokyo Xtreme Racer), that plays the first race you play after turning the Dreamcast on in 50hz then jumps into 60 if your TV supports it. Very odd.

Bust a Move 4 is PAL only and is squashed. DC-X forced 60hz works fine.
Same goes for PowerStone.
Evil Twin is the same, the manual refers to a 60hz mode but there's no option in the game. DC-X works.
Super Magnetic Neo is in 50hz but is full screen. DC-X works.
Snow Surfers (AKA Rippin' Riders/Cool Boarders DC) is full scren 50hz. Virtua Fighter 3tb and Buggy Heat are both squashyvision 50hz. Stupid Invaders is 50hz, but it's a French game and was made for this so it's full screen. Sega Bass Fishing is also squashed 50hz, as is Hotd2.

These are all I can remember, added to the ones already mentioned.

From what I've read in ODM #1 it seems that Sega told developers that if they couldn't get a properly optimized 50hz version running, they should just add a 60hz switch. It seems that the developers got a little lazy and just gave the option of a usually crappy 50hz mode and a 60. Fine with me

[Smeghead]

Other oddities include Tokyo Highway Challenge (aka Tokyo Xtreme Racer), that plays the first race you play after turning the Dreamcast on in 50hz then jumps into 60 if your TV supports it. Very odd.

Snow Surfers (AKA Rippin' Riders/Cool Boarders DC) is a squashyvision 50hz one.

Tokyo Highway Challenege was very weird, went into the main game engine once, before doing an Auto switch

Tokyo Highway Challenge 2 also auto detects 60hz (though immediately on boot up) as do Tony Hawks Skateboarding, and Tony Hawks Pro Skater 2.

A few other 50hz 1st party games off top of my head include Dynamite Cop and Zombie Revenge.

I might compile a list of 50hz only games for ppl acctually if I ever get very bored

And Regarding RGB, All PAL releases support it (except maybe Gauntlet Legends??? - who says PAL always get shafted? )

[Papercut]

Skies of Arcadia was optimised for 50Hz, it ran full screen. Just didn't have a 60Hz mode is all.

Run PAL Jet Set Radio in 50Hz and you'll get a nice full screen display, even though the game has a 60Hz option.

I'm 95% sure RE:CV has a 60Hz mode too

Re: auto switching 60Hz games, there are basically three kinds of 60Hz DC games:

a, those that assume they are running on a 60Hz DC and run at 50Hz bordered on PAL machines, intentionally or not (eg. Sega Rally 2 - intentional, Cool Cool Toon - unintentional)

b, PAL games that boot in 50Hz mode but give you the option to switch (even on NTSC 60Hz machines).

c, those that were written to run on PAL and NTSC machines (though still region encoded) eg. Rez which stays in 60Hz on a NTSC machine, and offers to switch to 60Hz on a PAL machine.

These three types of 60Hz games also roughly follow the years (1999 = a, 2000 = b, 2001 = c) that games were released. Of course there are many exceptions.

[yashiro]

I'm 95% sure RE:CV has a 60Hz mode too

Nope.

[Papercut]

My PAL Gauntlet Legends runs in RGB.

The PAL RGB Scart cable had composite sync and not composite video hooked up, so any non-rgb title would not work with it.

... so its almost certain that all PAL DC games were RGB supporting.

[Smeghead]

My PAL Gauntlet Legends runs in RGB.

The PAL RGB Scart cable had composite sync and not composite video hooked up, so any non-rgb title would not work with it.

... so its almost certain that all PAL DC games were RGB supporting.

I can't make up my mind, I'm greeted with a black screen from Gauntlet Legends in RGB, but works fine in S-Vid, Composite and RF. Thought I'd try again tonight, but the DC in my room is refusing to boot it at all :/

[Papercut]

Tokyo Highway Challenege was very weird, went into the main game engine once, before doing an Auto switch

Tokyo Highway Challenge 2 also auto detects 60hz (though immediately on boot up) as do Tony Hawks Skateboarding, and Tony Hawks Pro Skater 2.

It is not possible for a game to auto detect whether 60Hz is supported by your TV/monitor, it has no idea.

The auto switching in THC1 must be caused by re-initing the graphics engine and checking the region of the DC in the process. As mentioned above, later DC games switch correctly when booting depending on the DC region, as you describe THC2 doing.

In the case of THC1 it sounds like a funky PAL conversion that messes up on NTSC machines.

I have the PAL and NTSC versions of THC2, and running on a PAL DC I've not seen it auto switch.

[Jay]

Tee Off 2 (or Shiyouyou Golf (?)) is another game that doesn't support RGB.

Jay

[C']

Weird indeed. Perhaps its machine related or maybe you're actually displaying s-video via scart and not RGB?

JAP SF3 outputs no picture via an official rgb lead on my UK machine. (boot disk). I also borrowed a 'dodgy version' from a friend and this too also fails to show any picture.

PAL SF3 is fine though, and a cracking game it is too.

Very strange. It is definitely an RGB picture I am getting. I am using the official Sega PAL RGB lead which isn't wired up for S-Video or Composite image. Perhaps it's a later release where they added RGB support (similar to how it was added for SFZ3 for Matching Service).

[C']

Skies of Arcadia was optimised for 50Hz, it ran full screen. Just didn't have a 60Hz mode is all.

Skies of Arcadia is bordered. Not massive admittedly but not small either.

[Kirby]

My HotD2 is full screen..

[Commander Marklar]

Skies of Arcadia is bordered. Not massive admittedly but not small either.

Must be your TV then.

SFZ3 doesn't boot on my system with the Official RGB lead - it says it is unsupported (I guess it checks the "mode" the DC is in, 'cos RGB lead sets a bit high, like VGA) and if I try and boot using DC-X/Utopia, I get a black screen although the game is running. Works fine on VGA though - lovely.

Another 50hz only game is PenPen, and it is bordered too

[Squirtle]

My HotD2 is full screen..

Mine isn't. Borders at top and bottom.