What was Sega's policy regarding 60hz modes on Dreamcast?

[Commander Marklar]

Erm, yeah - covered above. Doesn't Sega Rally 2 have a VGA mode? I know the NTSC ones do. I'd assume PAL games that do would work fine in 60hz, even though they're 50hz only.

Bangai-O is another 50hz game, although optimised (although, that doesn't work in VGA). Worms is yet another, unoptimised effort although it hardly ever works anyway - I think its "one of those" discs

[C']

Erm, yeah - covered above. Doesn't Sega Rally 2 have a VGA mode? I know the NTSC ones do. I'd assume PAL games that do would work fine in 60hz, even though they're 50hz only.

Bangai-O is another 50hz game, although optimised (although, that doesn't work in VGA). Worms is yet another, unoptimised effort although it hardly ever works anyway - I think its "one of those" discs

I think Bangai-O also has a full 60hz mode, but yeah, the 50hz is well optimised as well.

[Smeghead]

Tee Off 2 (or Shiyouyou Golf (?)) is another game that doesn't support RGB.

Jay

Thats jus the pirate m8, the full original release does.

Regarding auto detect, explain why my PAL DC displays them in 60hz without me instructing the console to do so in any way or form?

You can also hear the frequency changing from 50hz to 60hz between the SEGA logo and the acctual game stuff.

How could Tokyo Highway Challenge be a funky NTSC problem with PAL consoles? I also noted that the game did not change to 60hz on a non compatible monitor, there must have been som auto detect in there somewhere even if it's just via the RGB signal.

[Smeghead]

The CDX claims to be able to switch to 60 or 50Hz but cannot.

Can do, just not compatible with every DC game, (Daytona being one of the main ones for me :/)

DC-X also struggles to do it with some games, Skies of Arcadia, Deadly Skies and Resident Evil Code Veronica are all impossible to boot up in NTSC mode.

DC-X is a great little disc tho, well worth grabbing if you see it.

[Papercut]

doh, answered above.

For games the Dc-X can't boot in 60Hz, the game forces the mode back to 50Hz when they load. On an NTSC DC you'd get the same problem. You need to mod NTSC DCs to handle 50Hz though, or else the screen just rolls. This is a separate to fitting a mod chip.

[Valken]

Bangai-O is another 50hz game, although optimised (although, that doesn't work in VGA). Worms is yet another, unoptimised effort although it hardly ever works anyway - I think its "one of those" discs

Marklar's having an off day

[Valken]

Regarding auto detect, explain why my PAL DC displays them in 60hz without me instructing the console to do so in any way or form?

If you're talking about pirates... it's because the bootstrap on the CD has been altered to intruct the DC to do so.

[Commander Marklar]

Marklar's having an off day

Yeah, soz about that - 60hz it is

Auto detection though Smeghead? I don't think it does, unless it picks up on the RGB-cable bit being set when you do the menu thing? Does it still do 60hz with an RF cable, S-Vid or Compo****e? If so, it ain't autodetecting anything...

Only know of the Tokyo Highway Challenge games, unless, like Valken says, you're on about pirate versions?

[Smeghead]

Regarding auto detect, explain why my PAL DC displays them in 60hz without me instructing the console to do so in any way or form?

If you're talking about pirates... it's because the bootstrap on the CD has been altered to intruct the DC to do so.

No I'm talking about official PAL release GD ROMs, wudn't catch me with a boot leg I've got a full PAL set of DC games, it's jus something I noticed with them particular games running them perfectly normally on a perfectly normal unmodified PAL DC with a perfectly normal official Sega SCART cable on a perfectly normal TV

[Smeghead]

Does it still do 60hz with an RF cable, S-Vid or Compo****e? If so, it ain't autodetecting anything...

Don't know m8, I cannot do such an injustice as play DC in any of them inferior TV connection standards listed above

*Update, no the games only change to 60hz via RGB

[Valken]

Regarding auto detect, explain why my PAL DC displays them in 60hz without me instructing the console to do so in any way or form?

If you're talking about pirates... it's because the bootstrap on the CD has been altered to intruct the DC to do so.

No I'm talking about official PAL release GD ROMs, wudn't catch me with a boot leg I've got a full PAL set of DC games, it's jus something I noticed with them particular games running them perfectly normally on a perfectly normal unmodified PAL DC with a perfectly normal official Sega SCART cable on a perfectly normal TV

OK, just to clarify.... are you claiming that your PAL DC booted games into 60Hz without any prompting from you? If so I just don't see how that's possible.

[Smeghead]

Regarding auto detect, explain why my PAL DC displays them in 60hz without me instructing the console to do so in any way or form?

If you're talking about pirates... it's because the bootstrap on the CD has been altered to intruct the DC to do so.

No I'm talking about official PAL release GD ROMs, wudn't catch me with a boot leg I've got a full PAL set of DC games, it's jus something I noticed with them particular games running them perfectly normally on a perfectly normal unmodified PAL DC with a perfectly normal official Sega SCART cable on a perfectly normal TV

OK, just to clarify.... are you claiming that your PAL DC booted games into 60Hz without any prompting from you? If so I just don't see how that's possible.

Right, get Tokyo highway challenge 1 for Dreamcast PAL, put it in a PAL DC, hook it up to a 60hz compat TV via an RGB cable, do 1 race (this is in 50hz) when you come out of that first race, the game suddenly jumps into 60hz, no prompt (you can even hear the frequency change and see the screen flicker slightly), Tokyo highway challenge 2 boots up in 60hz before you even hit the title screen, again can hear the TV changing frequency.

To Clarify

PAL DC
European Official DC SCART cable
PAL TV
PAL Game

I don't know how it's possible, but it does it!
Must b some voltage thing thru the SCART cable.

[Lyris]

I can confirm this.

PAL DC, first model, official RGB cable, official PAL game (THC2).

Surely if the SCART connector can pass voltage signals to turn the TV on and off and set 16:9 mode, it can do some sort of frequency test?



Pin 10 is Clock Out - couldn't that measure the possible frequency?
Also Pin 12 can send some sort of data, couldn't it be possible on these? The device and the TV communicating?

EDIT: just checked, the DC RGB cable only has the pins it needs (no composite video etc) and actually does have the Clock Out pin. It must be used for something.

[Papercut]

Surely if the SCART connector can pass voltage signals to turn the TV on and off and set 16:9 mode, it can do some sort of frequency test?

No, it really, really can't. The Scart spec would have to have a few data lines in order for a TV to inform the Dreamcast what refresh rates it supports. This just isn't the case, fact.

16:9 switching is normally done by sending a certain voltage down a certain pin. The Dreamcast does not do this. See here, its pin 8 (also used to tell your TV the video signal is RGB):

http://www.gamesx.com/hwb/co_Scart.html

You have given me an idea though. Some TVs attempt to auto detect the aspect ratio by looking at borders, or detecting special signals sent with video data (usually on composite video, but maybe composite sync aswell).

Perhaps Smeghead is seeing his TV switch to 14:9, 'smart', or zoom, accidentally being triggered by the Dreamcast. That would look a bit like 60Hz because the scanlines would be further apart, and the borders lessened.

Or maybe he has a bugged copy of THC1 that accidentally switches to 60Hz at a certain point. I have THC1 too, I'm going to check it out this evening

EDIT: just checked, the DC RGB cable only has the pins it needs (no composite video etc) and actually does have the Clock Out pin. It must be used for something.

Look at the name and the pin diagram. Its clock out, not clock in.

[Commander Marklar]

Does it still do 60hz with an RF cable, S-Vid or Compo****e? If so, it ain't autodetecting anything...

Don't know m8, I cannot do such an injustice as play DC in any of them inferior TV connection standards listed above

*Update, no the games only change to 60hz via RGB

Thought so - they must be testing port 7 (could be 8 - although, that might be VGA, which does both... it has been a while ) as RGB sets it high, RF doesn't. I guess they just jump the gun and go for it... 60hz baby!