3D Gaming Still in the Experimentation Stage?

[IcePak]

Is it just me, or do the games of the previous and current hardware generation (32/64-bit and 128-bit) seem more like experiements in 3D than fully-fledged games? Compare something from the 16-bit age to a title from one of these eras, and these seem rough around the edges, and not-quite there. An obvious exampleis comparing the 3D Sonic games to the 2D ones of the 16-bit era - obviously the 2D titles were much more polished and just generally more playable without having broken parts through them. Sure, a few titles have got it right, but it is only a few, and not the majority, which is a real shame.

If you agree about this (or if you don't then give your opinion why with some examples) then how long do you think it will take before the major of developers started making games that aren't broken, or just experiements with 3D technology?

[Darwock]

broken how? Not sure what you mean but I'm fairly sure the antithesis of everything you mention above is Metal Gear Solid 2...

[John Beaulieu]

where was Mario 64 'broken'?

[jezzace]

I think peoples opinions on this is going to depend on whether they like 2d or 3d games. If you ask me the experimentation with 3d was a back in the snes days or before that. Games like Doom, Sonic 3d and Starwing all experimented with 3d and were original and exciting but nowadays most 3d games are so alike that they need a hook or gimmick to set them apart. Also, certain genres are sort of done experimenting and are set to be the same forever e.g. Football games or racing games. Most experimenting today is done with gameplay (The Nintendo DS for example) instead of 2d/3d graphics.

I disagree about 2d games being more polished as well. I imagine the imperfections of 3d games are easier to point out because they are on a more noticeable plain (Dodgy camera's, jaggedy textures etc.) but even classics such as Sonic had dodgy sections (Can't remember what it was called but the 3rd world in Sonic 2 comes to mind).

[dreamylittledream]

Broken? Certainly not....but 3D gaming is at a lower state of evolution then 2D gaming was at its hight in the 16bit era.

This in itself is not that surprising....by the end of the SNES era 2d gaming had had 15 years or so of evolution...if you start the 3D era in full at 95 thats only 9 years to date.

Things can only improve....

[Leon Retro]

Surely the 3D era started with Virtua Racing/Fighter. Sega didn`t invent anything new but they sure did make 3D playable.

I actually think 3D hasn`t actually come that far. The mid-90`s 3D arcade titles from Namco,Sega,Konami, set the bench-marks. Games today are evolutions of the early 3D titles. We have better graphics but more importantly we have better physics, which is what the current gen is all about.

In some ways the early 3D titles such as Ridge Racer, Cybersled, Daytona and Virtua-on are much better than todays games. There was something pure about them. They were designed to be pure fun and nothing else. I think the big Japanese companies need to reflect on the mid 90`s and start producing more pure gameplay titles with little story and needless cut-scenes.

Of course there are people that love games that are filled with movies and story but there are also people that love pure thrills instant gameplay and these are the people that look back with fondness to the 2D era.

3D games dont have to be far removed from the 2D games of old. If only the major games producers woke-up and realised this.

[df0notfound]

Is it just me, or do the games of the previous and current hardware generation (32/64-bit and 128-bit) seem more like experiements in 3D than fully-fledged games? Compare something from the 16-bit age to a title from one of these eras, and these seem rough around the edges, and not-quite there. An obvious exampleis comparing the 3D Sonic games to the 2D ones of the 16-bit era - obviously the 2D titles were much more polished and just generally more playable without having broken parts through them. Sure, a few titles have got it right, but it is only a few, and not the majority, which is a real shame.

If you agree about this (or if you don't then give your opinion why with some examples) then how long do you think it will take before the major of developers started making games that aren't broken, or just experiements with 3D technology?

the reason why 2d sonic titles were more polished is because sega are absolutely **** and couldn't cobble together a decent platform game if their lives depended on it. What a surprise mario 64 is wonderfully polished and respected to this day and sonic adventure is swept under the carpet like it never happened apart from the die hard dc fans who are in total denial that the games contain bugs which render levels nearly impossible to complete

[Nijo]

I guess you could argue the camera dynamics in 3D games is still being developed (at least, mistakes are still made). Perhaps the same could be said of clipping, character control, etc.. especially in third person.

But then again, 3D is a whole dimension harder than 2D. It's not surprising that it takes a while longer to get right.

[hankwangford]

I think it's also key to remember that loads of genres were made up and cemented in 2D (when the gaming palette was nice and fresh). I can't really say that there have been even a quarter as many invented during the time of 3D - the FPS perhaps the only major one on very quick thought - and as a result, past the time when everyone was "OMFG IT'S IN THREE DEE!!!11!!1!120123rt332", 3D gaming really doesn't look quite as new and modern as it should.

[IcePak]

the reason why 2d sonic titles were more polished is because sega are absolutely **** and couldn't cobble together a decent platform game if their lives depended on it. What a surprise mario 64 is wonderfully polished and respected to this day and sonic adventure is swept under the carpet like it never happened apart from the die hard dc fans who are in total denial that the games contain bugs which render levels nearly impossible to complete

That makes no sense whatsoever - the 2D games a more polished because Sega are ****? I guess that would make sense if you had the mental capacity of a 2 year-old. :P

And sure, the 3D Sonic games are buggy (read my original post in this thread) but they were still enjoyable games. And none of the levels are impossible to complete (although some could test your patience, especially getting the A's), maybe you just suck at playing games. :P

[IcePak]

where was Mario 64 'broken'?

I never said SM64 was broken, in fact it's probably one of the few games that got it right, or close enough to perfect. In fact, Nintendo seem to have done a good job in converting most of their 2D franchises into 3D games.

[Alf-Life]

I think another major factor you've not taken into consideration is how much work you have to put into a 3D game compared with a 2D game to compete in the industry.
I'm guessing developers of 2D games had more time to mess about and perfect the gameplay.

[IcePak]

Yeah, that's fair enough. I know there's a huge demand for games these days too, but personally I'd like developers to take the time and release better games that are more polished.

[Moodmon]

I think the 3D Sonic games are a good example. It seemed to show much of a development team only just getting to grips with a true 3D game (please feel free to blow me out the water at this point).

As games the 2D incarnations are much better. Then again, I wasn't a huge fan of SM64 deviating from the 'get to the other end of the level' formula that made previous Mario games so compelling. Perhaps it is telling that as far as 3D platformers go, I have yet to see a successful example that changes the SM64 'Collect the stars/widgets/whores' formula.

[Lebowski]

the reason why 2d sonic titles were more polished is because sega are absolutely **** and couldn't cobble together a decent platform game if their lives depended on it. What a surprise mario 64 is wonderfully polished and respected to this day and sonic adventure is swept under the carpet like it never happened apart from the die hard dc fans who are in total denial that the games contain bugs which render levels nearly impossible to complete

im not sticking up for sonic adventure but i rember playing it and finishing it quite easily, i dont rember any bits that were imposible the thing that dident work with sonic adventure in 3d was the way sega tried to take a 2d concept and shoe-horn it in to a 3d enviroment it was peperd with large sections were you felt like you werent doing anything at all except pressing forward.

Back on topic one thing i do have to admit that a lot of 3d games when compared to titles like metal slug lack the charicter the level of detail and polish theses game have, but with titles like panzer dragoon orta we are definatley getting there with belevable detailed game worlds