There has to be some sort of rule - Age ratings + GTA:SA

[nips]

This woman walks into the store and asks when GTA San Andreas comes out and whether she can place a pre-order, she has this eager looking 9-12 year old at her side.

I look at the kid and ask her whether the game is for her, at which point the boy happily replies, "No, it's for me! ", and the woman nods approvingly.

I tell her that this game is rated 18 and that, like a film is definitely not suitable for under 18s. I go on to say that it is violent and that games like GTA:SA are the reason for claims that games lead to the death of a child in the summer holidays.

She acknowledges this and says: "Well they get enough of that from TV...? Quite possibly the stupidest thing I've heard in my life. I'm thinking that, well if you get enough of it from TV, then why would you want to indoctrinate your kid with more.

At this point my boss looks at me like "wtf?" I ask him whether I can serve this woman even though it is admittedly for her underage son. He replies that I can, and I will. Grudgingly I take her ?5 and give her a receipt.

Surely parents should be as responsible as the retailers. My boss said that there is nothing that I can do. If the woman over 18 wants the game, then I have to serve her. Nothing illegal. It's wrong. You can't piss into the wind and complain when you get wet.

It is a joke. I don't want to give kids stuff that isn't suitable for them because I don't think it's fair on the kid and I know that it is the industry that will feel the repercussions of my actions. I appreciate that parents have the choice to give their kids what they want and it's unfair for me to make that decision for them, but I find it hard to believe that if she knew that "****" is every other word and violence is bloody and superfluous she'd feel the same way. I wonder the last time she let him watch Scarface or Goodfellas.

Basically:

A) Parents should be more responsible.
B) People should be more aware of the content of games and stuff so they can make reasoned decisions.

Questionably:

C) Retailers should be able to use their own judgement or something when selling to people passing on unsuitable games and stuff to persons clearly passing them on to unsuitable audiences.

[razu]

I was watching Jason and Freddy films at that age.

Putting myself in the parent's position, I'd be a little annoyed that a shop assistant 'over-assisted'.

[Tom Salter]

Same razu. And I've turned out fine!

/me dribbles and snarls

[Pacman555]

Same razu. And I've turned out fine!

/me dribbles and snarls

LOL

[Spatial]

I wonder the last time she let him watch Scarface or Goodfellas.

Probably last week.

This things been going on for years in one form or another. My parents let me watch any old crap when I was younger, from Nightmare On Elm Street right through to The Stuff and all sorts of 18 rated gubbins.

Never did me any harm..... AND I'LL KILL EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU WITH A RED HOT POKER THROUGH YOUR EYES IF YOU DISAGREE WITH ME IN ANY WAY !!!!!!!

Sorry....... I need my brain medicine.

Its true though. I know of friends kids who are 8 or younger who play / have access to Vice City and Manhunt. Doesn't make it right of course, but the same things happen with video games as happened with 18 rated flicks years ago.

It should be up to parents to sort this kind of thing out. Unfortunately most of them don't care what their kids watch / play ( which poses the question as to why my parents let me watch that kind of stuff. Thats one for the middle of next weeks Sunday dinner visit I think ), and it should be up to the retailers to help prevent this kind of thing.

Personally in this instance the manager shouldn't have told you to sell it if he believed that it was going to be intentionally supplied to a minor. I'm pretty sure thats an offence, but then I'm no expert on the law.

Edit :- Out of interest Nips was this at Dixons ?

[fuse]

I'm really not sure where I stand on this...

I can fully understand your position on the matter here, as it must be frustrating to watch some brainwashable kid walk away with something that *will* influence them, and it's not good to watch a parent be so irresponsible, especially when all of the warning signs are there in the first place.

Buuuut.... at the same time, the teenager I thought I'd left behind says that the 'Retailers using their own judgement' criteria should also get rid of agre restrictions on items, such as games. I always joke about how films and games should have IQ restrictions instead so you don't get morons with no conscious thought of their own getting ideas from media, but it wouldn't be that bad an idea (implementation + outrage aside). I know when I was around that age I would've quite happily watched 18 films, played violent videogames - you name it - and not once would I ever think it's a good idea to take what I've learnt into practice. I'm glad my parents were always very trusting in that respect, and knew not to patronise me, and trust my judgement and reasoning if ever an issue such as this arose.

The sad fact at the end of the day is, that even if you do take the moral high ground and refuse to sell the game, you know full well they'll just go to another shop and get served by someone who has no problem with doing what you wouldn't. So, better the devil you know? At least you've told them, I know it's not much consellation but at least the parent is fully aware of what they're letting themselves in for.

[nips]

Well obviously not everyone who watches a violent film when young kills, it's like not all persons who consent in under-age sex get pregnant... It's just that game violence is hot topic.

Irrelevant of whether games actually do cause violence, the law believes that certain things aren't suitable for persons under a certain age because they could cause violence or other problems. If that is the case, then kids shouldn't be able to get this game and then everyone including retailers and parents should be responsible. I should be able to do my part and they should be able to do theirs.

I don't want people kicking off over my pass-time. These games are fun and enjoyable, but ultimately they aren't suitable for everyone, so why let people who shouldn't play these games get them.

It's like the rating on the front of it stands for ****, and then the games get the backlash! In all fairness some people really do care, and I've had a few people ask me about it and decide, like with films, that perhaps their kids shouldn't indulge in this. It's just inconsistent.

[Number45]

It's an interesting point actually, because I believe by law a shop assistant can refuse to sell Alcohol or Cigarettes if they believe they're being bought for someone who isn't legally old enough to have them.

I pretty much agree with all of your points, nips. I have a young daughter and, knowing there's a pretty good chance she'll get involved with games at some point (Mainly because I'll force it upon her - there should be a good year or two when I can maintain a winning record there! ), I'm happy that I'll be in an excellent position to make sure that she only plays content that is suitable for her age at that time. So in that respect it's a little disappointing.

I'm more disappointed that you were forced to sell it to her though. It's ridiculous that, on the odd occasion where someone accepts a little bit of social responsibility, they're shot down in flames. I'm by no means a part of the Daily Mail brigade, but I do think that the only way we're going to relieve ourselves of the attention of that section of the media and public is by taking the responsibility to police ourselves as a community.

Hey ho.

[nips]

Yes, it was Dixons.

I mean, I did watch films under age myself, I think almost everyone did. But my parents were pretty good. I remember watching Predator when I was about 13 and thinking it was amazing, all the blood and stuff was cool. I was only able to watch it though after a conversation with my old man where I questioned why I shouldn't be able to watch it and convinced him that perhaps I was mature enough to appreciate it. It wasn't that my parents ever actively held 18 rated films away from me, but it felt strange that when I became aware at 10/11 my parents had no problem letting me watch 12 rated films, then the odd 15 after they had watched it first... why not go the whole hog?

I've always considered myself a pretty responsible person, and I've said to myself when I've watched films, "It's not real, no need to get too scared". Equally "It's a fictional character in a fictional world, just because he's on Mars and killed 100000 people, doesn't mean I should do the same!" It is however possible that other people don't.

Of course, above is an example of my parents using their own discretion and it apparently working out well which is why I wasn't 100% happy with my C) point, but ultimately, if you're going to kick off over it, then let's ****ing sort it out until either its accepted that perhaps parents should be able to choose and the media should stfu, or they should do it properly.

Maybe I'm a little hard-line, remember that boy who was attacked by his 'friends' who re-enacted Reservoir Dogs, but I also appreciate that it's a little heavy handed giving stringent age ratings across the board.

It just doesn't seem right.

[Spatial]

Yes, it was Dixons.

Excellent, now I know where to go to get some copies of the game for the 5 year olds in my street..... just kidding mate, just kidding

[charlesr]

Phone her when it comes out and ask her when she will be coming to collect it. Get the Daily Mail round.

[bowser123]

Personally don't see what it has to do with anyone else TBH.
It's the parents decision to make, and to be honest you're there to do a job (make money) and not judge the morals and ethics of others.

[nips]

It's not her morals or ethics I'm trying to judge. But if it is not suitable for persons under 18 as judged by a board of professionals etc, why should she be able to decide any different. And if she can choose, why should anyone be able to complain why kids play it?

[Dirty Sanchez]

First question in said mum's house on sparking the game up -

'Mum, what's a mother ****ing nigger, ho ass busting bitch, **** you up nigger' etc etc etc

[bowser123]

Whenever I sell a notorious game at work (GTA, Getaway, Suffering, basically anything with an BBFC rating) I always ask the adult if they're aware of the rating of the game and the reason behind it.
If they wish to know about the rationale behind the rating I tell them, but after that it has nothing to do with me or anybody else whether Mummy is going to give the game to little Johnny or not.

The shop is being responsible by not selling to minors (in theory) and if they do what I do and ask them if they are aware of the content, that is where your liability ends.

After that it has nothing to do with anybody bar the parent and child.