Game Length: A rant about PLAYING games

[winky]

Burnout 3 is a particularly good example of how not to make a game. As mentioned above the loading is terrible and having to sit through videos of how to play the games is infuriating. Burnout should be a case of stick the disc in and play! no faffing around choosing profiles, no fiddling with custom soundtracks each time it loads. It should be pick up and play. If I pick up an arcade game I want some arcade action, fast.

If I buy a story based game I expect it not to be as fast paced and I expect some story. However Zelda:WW is one that really annoys me because I wont go back to it because I am fed up sailing and changing the bloody wind direction.

I can think of umpteen games that have been slated for being to short but I still haven't completed them. Games are too long as it is before developer artificial extension.

[spagmasterswift]

I hear what your saying about loading times, thinking about it most of the games I love don't have any of that hanging around bull****.

But I have to disagree when it comes to Burnout3. At first I wasn't feeling it, mostly because I was playing party crash and those long pauses in play sucked the life out of the room and everybody in it. However, I have been getting into it single player this week and found myself tapping the buttons as you say to get the thing going. My excitement at getting back on the road and hitting full speed (amongst other things) is peaked, due to being held at a red light so to speak, just as I'm back in my rolling start. - plus I get to have a blaze while I wait.

Great post though man.

[Ady]

Oh something else to add to your list:

The "me too" factor

By this I mean the way every other other game must conform to some kind of trend. Metal Gear sold well, ever since then, everyone's been butting stealth in their games for the sake of it, hoping to get some of its success.

Jet Set Radio popularised cel shading, now games fancying themselves as being a bit stylish have to be cel shaded (it'd be asking too much to expect artists to find new styles...).

As before, the rise in popularity of the console RPG from the PS1 era now means that even puzzle games have to have stories and every game strives to be an "immersive experience".

NB: The puzzle game bit was an exaggeration of course, but you know what I'm getting at.

[Robster]

this has to be the best thread i have read in a while.

Saur, just reading your comments makes me want to go and play DMC properly now.

[Saurian]

this has to be the best thread i have read in a while.

Saur, just reading your comments makes me want to go and play DMC properly now.

Try and get hold of a DMC3 demo man - Fresh out of the plastic Dante in DMC3 has more nomics than fully powered DMC1 Dante! I aint joking about spending 3 to 4 hours restarting in the first room!

http://www.popcultureshock.com/media...PCSDMC3raw.wmv 10MB

[Robster]

wheres the best place/game(s) to get the demo from?

[Saurian]

I had to buy Biohazard Outbreak: File 2 for it

The demo is packaged better than Biohazard! - they knew blatantly what manz was after!

[Robster]

when is DMC3 out........

[Leon Retro]

I think arcade games have the right formula. A game should never put the story first; the gameplay is of most importance.

I have always liked arcade games more than games developed for the home. When I play arcade titles, it doesn't matter if I don't know the story; it's all about the experience and the gameplay.


When you play an arcade machine, there is an option screen and then the game. It's the way every game should be.


I guess the reason arcade games and conversions have always been popular, is because people want to play, not watch intro's and story scenes.


People should learn about the game world, characters, and gameplay from their experience in the game. They shouldn't have to endure lessons and unnecessary annoyances.


There is no reason for padded-out games. The experimenting with FMV and the like, should have died with the 32-bit age. It's about time games were easy to get in to and devoid of obtrusive front-ends, options and loading.


Arcade games have been the perfect template for decades. It?s about time home developers took a leaf out of the arcade industrys book and realised that every style of game can be user-friendly.

[rjpageuk]

Thanks for the positive comments about the thread, I was a bit nervous about posting that because I do tend to write overblown stuff sometimes so I didnt know how well it would be received.

Ady - I completely agree about your initial comments with FF7, I also think this is the reason for such a drive to introduce story elements into games and its simply due to your second point the "me too" factor.

Games cost so much to develop now once someone gets onto a success everyone else jumps on to the bandwagon.

It would be nice if some people from the "other side" would post though. Surely there are people out there that are the complete opposite of me .

[dreamylittledream]

*ahem*

Yup me.

Personally I enjoy story based gameplay...gives me a sense of progression and an underlying reason to continue through the game...very uuseful when a certain section is irritating the hell out of you. Of course my favourite genre is RPGs...so my love of story and cut scenes is probably influenced more then a little by this.

Cut scenes however do need to be a skippable second time through....once is great but there is nothing more irritating then repeatedly dying on a section and then being compelled to sit through a great swathe of story before you can restart (many RPGs being clear culprits of this).

Loading times? Bah...how many of you were around in the 8bit age eh? A few seconds to a minute between sections is hardly anything to get upset by is it? Its hardly a tape based C64 multi load now is it?

Intro's/tutorials - many games benefit from these immensely...personally I prefer the game to give me a basic idea before throwing me into the wilderness...would you rather have to read the manual cover to cover before starting? Have a little paitence for heavens sake...good things come to those who wait. Although poorly designed one can be a little tedious, they don't usually take more then 10-15mins max to play though....NCL of course designed the best ones but not every is so talented. Tus hardly a shooting offense.

If you want instant gratification play a s'mup or somethin....more complex games take longer to develop but are usually all worth it in the end. And if not stop playing.

[Leon Retro]

Any type of game can be made with an arcade style interface.


The arcades have had RPG style games, but they were accessible to all. In fact, there have been lots of different styles of games in the arcades over the years, but all of them are designed so that the action is paramount.


Arcades are pure gaming pleasure. Why are lots of home games so infuriating? Because they don't put the gameplay experience first and foremost.


If I wanted to know the story behind any arcade game, all I have to do is watch the attract sequence, but it isn't a necessity.


If anyone plays a game for any other reason than the gameplay experience, then they are the ones with a problem, maybe they should read a book.

[Max Zorin]

Some unskippable cutscenes are unbelievable: it took me over a year to finish FFX after reaching Jecht because of the ridiculous (and tedious) mumblings the game force-fed me before I could rassle'im. Didn't help that my stats were mucho anaemic until I did some more dungeon-crawling, but still..

[elmos_pimp]

you made some excellent points and i am one of the many that get pissed with long, pointless, and unskippable intros and cut scenes. Tutorials hould be intervowen into the game and experienced players should be abole to turn them off, they should take the form of an in game cue.
Gameplay is another point where the current majority of developers are falling. One thing that wasnt mentioned that might have made it, and i sure that i'm not alone in this, is 'bolt-on' game play. Sections of games where other elements, from other 'chart topping games' , creep in. One example, thug, driving the car, wtf where they thinking. a few of my friends love the tony games as a pissed multiplayer, and have followed the series through on the psone. then to thug after purchasing a ps2. After they got themslves into a foaming pissed up state to play it they spent 30 minutes telling at the damn tv, due to the dumb as drive the car, climb this walk here walk there.
i ninja was another game that bugged me for the same reason. imo gameplay should be intrinsic and instictive. anybody can pick up and play most shooter and fighters. be them new or old to video games. and great games dont need extra fluf, they sell themselves over and over again.

As for narrative in games i think that it is something that is personal to each player, imo it shold be skippable, if it is told through cut scenes, but i think that the use of narrative, within certain types of game, is really enjoyable. However narrative can make or mare the experience for me. i feel that they key is delivery, a well delivered narrative will increase your imersion in a game, the narrative development of halflife is well docummented for this.

[Commander Marklar]

I think agree with your overall point but you've said a couple of things (about skipping cutscenes etc) that compel me to shout "BALLS" in your face.

Yea, I agree with that... I'd probably shout "PRETENTIOUS COCK" instead though

I hear THAT! - the way journalists drop that garbage on games makes me sick. Psyvariar 2 can be finished in about 20 mins, but I've put around 150 hours playtime into it. It's nothing to do with the length of the game, but the expectation that most gamers have now that games have to do everything for them and the length is determined by the time taken to get from intro to ending and nothing to do with the process of learning and improving your game.

Now, what if, right, a reviewer said the game is short and actually meant it took little time to learn its mechanics? I've seen plenty of reviews like that, John's review of Outrun 2 comes across like this and I find nowt wrong with that at all.