Edge Issue 145 thread

[spagmasterswift]

I agree, although the sequel introduced new moves and the 36 Chambers mode, which definitely add another dimension to Joe, they are not new enough to warrant an extra score point no matter how addictive 5th Chamber is!!

Looking forward to reading their review

[PeteJ]

Imo Viewtiful Joe 2 isn't nearly as good as the original - the levels are far too fragmented by pace-effecting puzzles (clever, but not particularly fun) and the charm and style of the original just isn't present. One of the more disappointing games of the year.

[Concept]

Correction.

I didn't have the issue at the time. Just sourced the scores from elsewhere.

The Shenmue article was superb this month, although I felt it was a tad harsh on Shenmue II. It's just as great as the first, albeit it in a different way.

[Ady]

Shenmue II was better than the first one, IMO. What were their gripes?

[Concept]

It's a fact that makes the Dreamcast sequel - which features the original Asian voice acting with subtitles - feel foreign, weird and un-Shenmue in terms of more than just dialect.

That for me is a plus with Shenmue II. You're not supposed to feel at home as you were in Yokosuka, and the change of language benefits that situation. Originally, Yu Suzuki toyed with the idea of making Ryo half-Japanese, half-Cantonese, so that when he got to Hong Kong everyone would change language. It didn't happen, but the original intent was there...

Due to the English dub in the original, and the fact it reverts back to Japanese in Shenmue II, for a Western audience, I feel some of this idea was still partially maintained.

Shenmue is a much more emotional, 'homely' kind of game in my view. Whereas Shenmue II is largely epic in scope. The first title captures the sense of living a domesticated short-distanced life, and Shenmue II is all about the sense of a journey in other words. Of travel. From a pure atmospheric and mechanical point of view it advances the series in the same way San Andreas has for GTA on from Vice City.

I wouldn't consider that a flaw, and while the article doesn't necessarily state it as such, the tone implies, emotionally, that the sequel is inferior.

Kowloon and Ren put that to bed in my opinion.

[bravo_johny]

Shenmue II was better than the first one, IMO. What were their gripes?

IMHO I would choose Shenmue. The sequel didn't brought something brand new. It was larger, had new options, but still the same.

[Ady]

Well is was meant to be part of an ongoing series. Re-inventing the entire game wouldn't have made any sense.

[Concept]

Development was intertwined between Shenmue and Shenmue II, they should be considered as much the same game in my view, considering that the original was cleaved.

Atmospherically though, Shenmue II is by far a very different game in my view. It still feels like Shenmue, the same universe, but happening in an altogether foreign part of the same land. That's why it succeeds.

Anyway, this is for feedback on E145. The MGS 3 reviews wasn't too bad either this month. Extremely well written.

[RLench]

VJ2 has a lot of innovation over the original. New puzzle ideas, completely new moves and Sylvia has totally changed the game...if replay isn't innovative then what is? There's more than enough innovation here to avoid the "typical sequel" tag it's receiving

Anyway they gave the original VJ an 8. Are you telling me that wasn't innovative either?

What pisses me off is that they care more about innovation than actual gameplay, and this attitude is seeping through to gamers. Give me yearly updates to Viewtiful Joe and I'll buy every one because they're incredible games. Innovation is (or should be) irrelevant until the game itself is good.

[Team Andromeda]

It's not exceptional at all, in fact it's very similar to another game called Viewtiful Joe. You have to remember that Edge marks games mostly on originality so a sequel is bound to score less than the original unless it adds something completely new - as in Half Life 2.

Really ?.
What about the likes of Pro Evo Soccer SC II, and TS II then

[Kotatsu Neko]

Shenmue II was better than the first one, IMO. What were their gripes?

I was rather disappointed with ShenMue 2. The original was a real stunner in it's day, it had a realism that still pretty impressive. Plus I loved the pacing, and the fork lifts! Awesome stuff.

The sequel.. well realism went totally out of the window. Yokosuka looked a lot like a real Japanese town. Anyone who has ever been to Kowloon and Hong Kong will struggle to recognise anything in ShenMue 2, aside from the Man Mo Temple. It's more like a trip to the middle ages or a war zone. Bizarre stuff.

I have heard some saying that this is a racist thing - Japanese 'superiority' over the Chinese. Who knows.

That aside, I didn't enjoy the game as much either. It moved too quickly, and there was little of the familiarity you got with Yokosuka. Too big basically, too many characters.

Still a good game, but the original is king for me. I played Shen 1 in Japanese first, then English, so playing the sequel in Japanese felt totally natural. Especially as the dub voices were apalling beyond belief.

I also remember reading that Suzuki wanted Ryo to be surrounded by Cantonese speakers in Shen 2 - as he would be in reality of course. AM2 even advertised for Chinese speaking voice actors at one point.

[Concept]

What's going on with all this Shenmue II hating, eh?

It's stylised - It isn't supposed to be realistic.

Disc 3 and 4. Kowloon and Guilin. They're amazing.

[Ady]

The sequel.. well realism went totally out of the window. Yokosuka looked a lot like a real Japanese town. Anyone who has ever been to Kowloon and Hong Kong will struggle to recognise anything in ShenMue 2, aside from the Man Mo Temple. It's more like a trip to the middle ages or a war zone. Bizarre stuff.

Come on, how many players have been to HK and/or care about such minor details? In any case, it was never Suzuki's attempt to replicate every sqaure inch of Hong Kong with 100% accuracy, Getaway style.

The city centre (with the arcades, shopping centre etc) didn't look like anything from the middle ages or a warzone to me.

I have heard some saying that this is a racist thing - Japanese 'superiority' over the Chinese. Who knows.

That aside, I didn't enjoy the game as much either. It moved too quickly, and there was little of the familiarity you got with Yokosuka. Too big basically, too many characters.

I loved it. You really felt lost and vulnerable in a strange town in a strange country. You were far from home and it really felt like it too.

Sorry for the hijack.

[Team Andromeda]

What's going on with all this Shenmue II hating, eh?

It's stylised - It isn't supposed to be realistic.

Disc 3 and 4. Kowloon and Guilin. They're amazing.

Discs 3 and 4 were amazing. Disc 4 was just magical, as was the music. Shenmue II was so much better than part 1.

Have to say those characters demos on Shenmue 1 still looks class. There's not many charcaters in games That's been modelled better in real time, Even on this gen of machines.

They real do look human

[Concept]

Yup. Shenmue's facial animation and detail on those talking heads has only been recently bettered by Half-Life 2, four years after release and on vastly superior technology.

If you discount the minor NPC characters in the actual game, then the character models of the main players are still amazingly detailed. Aesthetically both Shenmue games on the DC still stand proud of what the technology could do in the right, talented hands.