A nation that doesn't understand games

[Tokuda]

Sorry m8, I couldn't disagree more . It's a fair point that controls can become intuitive over time for a certain group of people, but to suggest that good controls will eventually become intuitive for everyone is incorrect. There are some people that despite 50 driving lessons still cannot get to grips with driving a car (and they never will). These are not abnormal people, the controls are simply unintuitive to them. Personally, I find car controls very intuitive, but as I said, intuitivity is a very personal thing.

Yeah, but to be fair, most of those people who found driving to be unintuitive wouldn`t blame the controls as such but would at least recognise it was simply them who hadn`t gotten used to the handling and whatnot. They`d be arrogant, wrong and disingenuous to say the `car controls were ****`

[Brats]

There seems to be some myth that a games controls need to be fast and immediete to the player. This is a complete fallacy IMO, and just because a games controls aren`t immediate doesn`t mean that they`re bad. I don`t see why gaming is particular in demanding immediete and obvious controls. The controls in GV were perfect for what they had set out to do.

I never said they had to be immediate, I just said they had to be intuitive. A completely different thing. I can see that the game's controls were perfect for you. I'm surprised that you're unable to see that some people simply may not like them, no matter how hard they try.

Once again, anyone who said GVs controls were **** hadn`t played the game properly, and were therefore ignorant- its as simple as that.

I'm sorry, but that is ignorance .

[Brats]

They`d be arrogant, wrong and disingenuous to say the `car controls were ****`

But the controls would be **** for them. There's nothing wrong about that at all.

[Tokuda]

I'm sorry, but that is ignorance .

nah- I think its arrogant and ignorant to claim that the controls to something are **** when you haven`t given it proper time and you can see that others who have given it time find it fine.

I don`t necessarily disagree with you that intuition is its a personal thing, but surely someone with a modicum of balance wouldn`t callously state in a review as fact that the GV controls were `****` or heavily criticise the handling of a car that many others find find (while learning), unless they were

1) ignorant and/or

2) impatient and/or

3) trying to be controversial

[Tokuda]

They`d be arrogant, wrong and disingenuous to say the `car controls were ****`

But the controls would be **** for them. There's nothing wrong about that at all.

They can state that they found them tough and hard to handle, but to simply say in a categorical sense `They are ****` is plain wrong.

I take issue in how they word their opinion, rather than their opinion itself.

[Brats]

I totally agree with you that someone who plays a game for a few minutes and disregards the controls (or other parts of the game) as **** has an opinion of little worth and is being arrogant. However, I still think that not everyone who thinks a game is **** falls into this category and they may have played the game for more time than anyone else, it just didn't click with them.

The example of a car is slightly misconceiving in this argument, because everyone (even the **** drivers) knows that 99.999999% of people can drive cars fine. With games it's different, because often when you're reviewing a game, opinions can be scarce. You forget the many magazines play games before release, so they are the only ones to have played it at that point in time. There is no majority opinion at this point in time, therefore how can a review be arrogant if it describes the controls as ****? Is the reviewer meant to have second sight to tell if other people will have a different opinion?

If I was the very first person on the planet to receive a copy of Game X and I slagged off the controls in the review, I can't see how I could be seen to have done anything wrong, even if I was in a minority of one.

[Brats]

I take issue in how they word their opinion, rather than their opinion itself.

I totally agree with this point. An opinion is worthless if someone simply just says "This is ****" with no explanation or more constructive use of language.

However, when I talk about review saying "X is ****", I'm just paraphrasing. No professional review I've ever seen (even in the West ) has ever said "The controls are ****"*. They may have criticised the controls and that's what I'm saying is fine provided the point is argued well. Criticism of something which you personally find perfect is not arrogant, wrong or anything else except a valid opinion, nor does it mean the person has been ignorant.

* (With one small exception. The review of Spinal Tap's Shark Sandwich )

[Soi]

I've got nothing to add but I just want to type the words:

**** sandwich.

There, done in. Can go home now.

[Squirtle]

I'm sorry, but that is ignorance .

nah- I think its arrogant and ignorant to claim that the controls to something are **** when you haven`t given it proper time and you can see that others who have given it time find it fine.

I don`t necessarily disagree with you that intuition is its a personal thing, but surely someone with a modicum of balance wouldn`t callously state in a review as fact that the GV controls were `****` or heavily criticise the handling of a car that many others find find (while learning), unless they were

1) ignorant and/or

2) impatient and/or

3) trying to be controversial

Or, in GV's case you can really believe the controls ruined the game, like i do. Seriously. I really wanted to get on with it, i tried loads, but the controls just seemed to be fighting me all the time. Am i bad? Am i wrong? Did i not try enough? I bought the game way after it came out so was well aware of the control issues, but i thought i'd give it a go anyway... Nope, to me the controls ruined the game.

On the flip side, I never had one problem with MP's control. Thought they worked sublimely well.

It's not always as black and white as you think.

[Tokuda]

The example of a car is slightly misconceiving in this argument, because everyone (even the **** drivers) knows that 99.999999% of people can drive cars fine. With games it's different, because often when you're reviewing a game, opinions can be scarce. You forget the many magazines play games before release, so they are the only ones to have played it at that point in time. There is no majority opinion at this point in time, therefore how can a review be arrogant if it describes the controls as ****? Is the reviewer meant to have second sight to tell if other people will have a different opinion?

An excellent point I concede.

However(deja vu time ), I have honestly not heard of anyone who gave GV time and then still thought the controls were ****. After playing through GV, I could see why many reviews had slated the game as having terrible controls- they do take a while to get the hang of, but once you do, they are nigh on perfect.

Having said that, I find it hard to swallow that pretty much all reviews of GV criticised the game for having **** controls. Its understandable to have a couple who didn`t play the game through, but for there to be not a review in sight that didn`t criticise the controls demonstrates my point about reviews misunderstanding games I feel (although I know you`ll disagree with me on this )

[Tokuda]

I'm sorry, but that is ignorance .

nah- I think its arrogant and ignorant to claim that the controls to something are **** when you haven`t given it proper time and you can see that others who have given it time find it fine.

I don`t necessarily disagree with you that intuition is its a personal thing, but surely someone with a modicum of balance wouldn`t callously state in a review as fact that the GV controls were `****` or heavily criticise the handling of a car that many others find find (while learning), unless they were

1) ignorant and/or

2) impatient and/or

3) trying to be controversial

Or, in GV's case you can really believe the controls ruined the game, like i do. Seriously. I really wanted to get on with it, i tried loads, but the controls just seemed to be fighting me all the time. Am i bad? Am i wrong? Did i not try enough? I bought the game way after it came out so was well aware of the control issues, but i thought i'd give it a go anyway... Nope, to me the controls ruined the game.

On the flip side, I never had one problem with MP's control. Thought they worked sublimely well.

It's not always as black and white as you think.

fair enough- I believe your opinion is the first I`ve seen on this (someone who says that they`ve given it lots of time and still hated the controls) and I respect that. I`m not sure how much time you gave it, but I still think (maybe) you needed to give it more time.

[Squirtle]

fair enough- I believe your opinion is the first I`ve seen on this (someone who says that they`ve given it lots of time and still hated the controls) and I respect that. I`m not sure how much time you gave it, but I still think (maybe) you needed to give it more time.

How much time is enough? Like Brats said about MGS (and someone reiterated later) I could have given it all the time in the world and i still don't believe i would have gotten on with them. They just felt completely counter-intuitive to me. Kinda like PN03 felt when i had a stab at that the other day, although i would be willing to give that another try as trying something in a shop is hardly conducive to forming an opinion.

But, and I stated this at the start, it took me less then a minute or so to fall in love with Monkey Ball in the same shop. Now, would that be considered a twitch game? That, IMO, has the perfect control system. Not everything that tries something different is to be lauded. Sometimes, different reallly can be bad.

[replicant]

Hi guys

Not been about for a few days, and after a lot of the crap I have read in this thread I am glad. I am sure I would have ended up argueing with a few people.

Does this country show a good understanding of gaming?

Quick answer - NO.

Why? Because it is run by a lot of idiots who themselves do not have an understanding of what makes a great game. How do I know? I've had to deal with them. That is the underlying problem.

The UK industry, with the exception of Sony UK who do try to keep things on track, it is a joke. Too many distributors interested in cutting deals for poor/average software. We live in a country who's industry is more interested in pimping The Matrix game than Zelda. Surely that is the wrong message to give out to the gaming public?

The problem is compounded by the gaming public in the UK. Too many people here are interested in shallow gaming experiences. Too many people are lead by pretty graphics than the actual meat of the game. I know someone who prefers Soul Cal 2 to VF Evo not due to playing them, but because the former looks better! True story, and it highlights the thinking behind the majority of UK buyers.

The only way to change that attitude is through education. However thanks to the standard of the printed media in the UK that isn't going to happen soon. Official Magazines shy away from the realities of what makes a game good and wave silly scores at "important" release schedule filling games e.g. The Getaway - 9/10? Joke, please! Of course, we have the specialised press e.g. Edge. The magazine who compared VF EVO to DOA3 through its backgrounds. How does that help?

I hope the UK gaming market realises when it has something good with the release of Silent Hill 3 this month. A major gaming coming out here is a novelty, yet I bet it doesn't sell.

[replicant]

Elitest Hardcore Gamers... I wish you all dead.

Nice post Corrupted Rose. One thing I would say is that at least "elitest hardcore gamers" are prepared to open their mind, and try new gaming experiences out. Games such as PN03 highlight this. A game initially which is troubling, but after time opens up to a wonderful experience.

[Concept]

Silent Hill, as a series, has had relatively good sale figures for a survival horror game in Europe.

I hope Silent Hill 3 can live up to the hype and continue that tradition.

As for being a nation that doesn't understand games...

I don't think it's as simple as saying all games are not understood here. I think dedicated, less mainstream games are basically neglected, and certain types of games are derided for being what they are.

Appreciation not only in terms of critique needs to be applied. In an ideal world, the culture of gaming in the UK would change.

But I simply can't see that I happening anytime soon.