rez vs pdo

[TheShend]

I've played the panzer dragoon games and have been following the story as closely as i can, but since last completing saga over 4 years ago, i admit to being abit lost with the plot.

Having only had a modicum of time to invest into Orta properly, i vaguely and amusingly recall past events, places and charcters.

I think i'll go for the killer jumpstart, play Orta to unlock PD, play thru that, immediatley turn to Zwei, and then Saga, THEN i should be ready for PDO revelations.

For me, the panzer dragoon universe is the most entertaining, engrossing and deep storyline offered from a game for a while. i see it as a modern work of fiction, fleshed out across some great games.

As for the PDO vs Rez, PDO has a fantastic deep story line which pulls you in to immerse yourself fully within the game. This aspect makes for a classic game.

[mr_sockochris]

Starfox 64 wipes the floor with both of them, end of story

[Concept]

I think the problem with Rez is that it throws you in without any form of player identification. You're given a very brief backstory, in that an AI called Eden has been infected with a virus and needs help... But that's it.

"Who are you?" The game even asks that very question.

It could be said this lets you get into the game faster and assume whatever role you want to create in your mind, that a lack of a story means the aesthetic isn't framed or restricted and can be as abstract as it wants. However, in a sense Orta offers the best of both worlds. We know who Orta is as she has a voice, and we uncover her past as she does... In a sense we're a stranger just as much as her... The journey is two-fold.

Although having a character's role clearly defined could be argued to make it more difficult to slip into that role because there are specific elements you need to identify with to do so...

But PDO gets around this problem by offering the dragon as a secondary character. It never speaks, says or expresses anything of communicable complexity. In essence it takes on a different role from that of Orta through its role as "carrier". Each Panzer Dragoon game has been telling Lagi's backstory through each and every episode, but that isn't essential knowledge. If you've never played any of the previous games, Lagi can be just as much an abstract blank slate for you to slip into in terms of character role. Sure, he makes gestures with a few growls to signify basic emotions such as fear, anger, determination etc...

But it's always a vague undefinable communication. Essentially, the player's role as "carrier" in Rez is only represented by their on-screen representation - nothing else. PDO however, not only offers a more traditional and forthcoming form of characterisation through Orta, but if you can't get 'into' the game through identification with her, you can always choose to place your emphasis on the dragon...

There's a mixture of the defined and undefined in Orta.

Whereas Rez basically focuses on the later.

[Chadruharazzeb]

I think we clearly look for different things in our games, Mr Concept. Frankly if Rez had some ludicrous, meaningful story it would be paff - I don't want any personalities considered when I'm playing what is essentially an on-rails shooter, you can leave that do more plot driven games like Silent Hill or Metal Gear.

It's like giving your nameless driver in Ridge Racer a gnarly, grizzled past, prompting flashbacks of his dead father (who died racing, naturally) while driving in an attempt to "inspire" you to try harder.

[C']

It's like giving your nameless driver in Ridge Racer a gnarly, grizzled past, prompting flashbacks of his dead father (who died racing, naturally) while driving in an attempt to "inspire" you to try harder.

You've gone and spoilt the plot for R: Racing Evolution (or whatever it was called) now ft:

And Rez vs PDO. Well Rez is a bunch of pretentious arse so PDO wins by default (although I don't much like that either).

[Chadruharazzeb]

You've gone and spoilt the plot for R: Racing Evolution (or whatever it was called) now ft:

I don't think I could make it any worse than Namco already have tbh.

[Concept]

I think we clearly look for different things in our games, Mr Concept. Frankly if Rez had some ludicrous, meaningful story it would be paff

Eh? Where did I mention I was talking about story? I was focusing on character identification. That doesn't have to be achieved entirely through story. It can be achieved equally through gameplay.

For example, there's the whole theme of pre-determination VS free-will expressed through Lagi in Orta. He's tracked and forced on a one-track movement which you have little control of, but how you level up is entirely up to you. So there's a mix of non-linear and linear, control and a lack of control.

In comparison, Rez is all pre-determination. You're side tracked in terms of movement, viewpoint, power of evolution, and even method and form of evolution.

Rez's overall character dynamic is set in stone compared to Orta, hence the reason I find it hard to identify with in terms of characterisation... Too predictable.

[Chadruharazzeb]

Eh? Where did I mention I was talking about story?

HERE

From what yous lot were bashing on about, it sounds to me like the characters are derived from some sort of story (or "plot" for want of a better word).

[Concept]

I think we clearly look for different things in our games, Mr Concept. Frankly if Rez had some ludicrous, meaningful story it would be paff - I don't want any personalities considered when I'm playing what is essentially an on-rails shooter, you can leave that do more plot driven games like Silent Hill or Metal Gear.

It's like giving your nameless driver in Ridge Racer a gnarly, grizzled past, prompting flashbacks of his dead father (who died racing, naturally) while driving in an attempt to "inspire" you to try harder.

You view character that black and white? A character in a videogame can be your controlled object, your method of control and interaction within a gameworld. Take Ridge Racer for example, the car could be considered your character... Now, it could be considered that a lack of a back-story (or existing information) in games of this type are usually built up by you, through the creation of high scores, adjustments to how the car handles etc. Even something as simple as choosing between manual gear and automatic gear could be considered an adjustment to your on-screen persona, which at that time happens to be a car.

Rez, for example, to me, feels a little forced and restrictive in terms of the amount of control I have in comparison to the character approach in Orta.

Hence the reason why I value Orta's characterisation more highly.

[Concept]

Eh? Where did I mention I was talking about story?

HERE

From what yous lot were bashing on about, it sounds to me like the characters are derived from some sort of story (or "plot" for want of a better word).

Yes, but that's an ultimately pointless link because I wasn't talking to you, was I?

And my post you referred to on this page today wasn't talking about the story... It was talking about character interaction. Hence the reason, when I said "where was I talking about story?", I was talking about my post today, which you referred to.

That link is placed out of context with our sub-discussion.

[Ravon]

Have to side with Chad on this one.....

I have Rez and PDO and Rez OWNz

[Chadruharazzeb]

You view character that black and white?

No, not at all, I think characters are vital in certain types of games. Saying that PDO has better character development to Rez is a non-argument really as Rez isn't really the sort of game that requires any. Other games, like Ridge Racer, certainly should never have any plot or such guff in them as the point of them is purely to play them. On the other hand if a game like DMC had no characters it wouldn't be half as good (see DMC2).

Well the seekers are no strangers to corruption. The old empire originated from the seekers themselves as they sought to fight against the ancients, but eventually fell prone to their own ambitions to dominate the world. It wouldn't surprise me if the seekers are beginning to turn once more. Without a strong leadearship, such as from Gash for example, they seek to protect their interests by using Orta as a shield of protection from the empire.

Sorry, but if that's not "story" or "plot" then I'd like to know what is.

[Concept]

You view character that black and white?

No, not at all, I think characters are vital in certain types of games. Saying that PDO has better character development to Rez is a non-argument really as Rez isn't really the sort of game that requires any. Other games, like Ridge Racer, certainly should never have any plot or such guff in them as the point of them is purely to play them. On the other hand if a game like DMC had no characters it wouldn't be half as good (see DMC2).

EDIT - Sorry, I fail to see the difference between "story" or "plot" and charcter interaction. Perhaps you can clear that up for me, also!

Story = The actual content of the narrative
Plot = The path of the narrative
Character interaction = Your vendor, your means of interaction between you and the gameworld.

I think your mis-interpreting my view on characterisation. Anything which defines it in terms of non-interactive personality (i.e. speech, cut-scenes etc.) I personally value as part of the Story. Characterisation can be considered your control point in a way...

And for me where Orta excels is the implication and lack of implication story has on its characterisation. Like Rez, the dragon can be considered a blank free insertion for the player into that role. Orta's character herself however is tied distinctly into her role in the story, which ties back more to the definition of characterisation you may be thinking of.

That's why I prefer Orta, because it offers what Rez does in this department and more. The problem with Rez is that the characterisation is so really tied into the on-rails stereotype. Not only is the game driven by your on-rails interaction, the format is on-rails too (layers).

Orta offers you the chance to evolve as powerfully chosen as you want, take different routes, change your evolutions when you require. It also rewards more intense interaction through the beserk mechanism because the more you attack the more it fills.

Rez offers none of these things in terms of characterisation. You're completely tracked. Sure, you can decide when (time) you want to evolve, but you can't choose what you want to evolve in.

See?

Remember this is only my opinion. Yours may differ.

EDIT: You've edited your post which I've quoted from.

[Chadruharazzeb]

EDIT: You've edited your post which I've quoted from.

I know, I made a mistake and corrected it whilst you were typing your reply. Doh!

Can I also take this opportunity to quote Trebles PDO review:

Although PDO is ?only? an on-rails shooting game, the love and devotion lavished on the title makes it a compelling experience, and one you will wish to re-visit again and again. There are few gamers who will fail to be seduced by its charms, and it is worth noting that fans of the seminal Rez will be over the moon at the chance to play a game that matches developer UGA?s masterpiece

So that's reviews for both games on this site which mention the other game, so clearly there is some basis for comparison. Which was my initial point, after all.

[Concept]

Yes, but your more recent posts had moved on from that initial point. We were dicussing our views on characterisation and what they meant in terms of our different viewpoints in Orta and Rez.

Still. Doesn't matter.

We'll just have to agree to disagree about which is the better game.