To criticise or enjoy?

[lordcookie]

Before I start this is not aimed at anybody, and is purely something I have found when I now play computer games.

I know these threads have been done before, "Im getting older and games are losing their appeal etc", but this isnt an age issue. I am finding the more I know and learn about games (which I admit is still not that much) the more I am beginning to not enjoy them. I am finding myself pick holes in games that are fundamentaly sound but have niggling problems, a slight drop in frame rate, an unruly camera etc. At the end of the day we got in to gaming for fun, yet we seem to lose that along the way. I am not saying we shouldn't notice faults, but I couldn't play Mario Sunshine because of these minor faults. The game was still probably the second best 3D platform game around, yet I couldn't enjoy it.

Then there is the rehash of ideas that developers churn out, and we all moan. But at the end of the day these slight tweaks and improvements are still good. Yes there isn't enough original content in games at the moment, but music and films are going through the same problems. Just because a game copies the mechanics of another successful game doesn't make it bad, yet why cant I enjoy them instead of moaning all the way through it?

It then got me thinking about all the old games I loved years ago, and the reasons why I loved them. Was it because they were so original or that they had no niggling problems, or was it I was unaware about this and just played them for fun? I suggest it is the latter, and when we go back and play them, as hard as we try to be objective we still play them as though we were kids and blind to their faults. Think of your top 10 games of all time. For most people the list will have more old games than new. Is this because they are better, or because we played around the faults, and the generic layout and game mechanics.

I am going to make an effort this year to play a game with a less critical eye, and hopefully I can start enjoying the games I play rather than berating a perfectly acceptable game.

[Sidez]

I am more critical now than I used to be but those games I do enjoy where everything is 100% perfect, the feeling I get when I play or even think about these games is indescribable. These include Silent Hill 2, Rez, VF4 Evolution and Ridge Racer V from this gen.

The reason you couldn't play Mario Sunshine is because it's an awful game. Don't believe the hype or the inflated review scores, many people didn't think much of it.

Personally I have a good mix of old and new games in my top 25. What I used to love ten years ago is pretty much what I still like today.

[srgbilco]

The reason you couldn't play Mario Sunshine is because it's an awful game. Don't believe the hype or the inflated review scores, many people didn't think much of it.

Awful in comparison to SM64, or games in general? Most people seem to really hate SMS just because it wasn't as good as SM64, rather than enjoying it as a brilliant game on it's own that trounces most other platform games.

[lordcookie]

See Sidez the games you highlighted barring SH2 (not my kind of genre) are all games I love, but what about the hundreds of games we criticise that are still very good games but not quite to that standard. I am not saying to lower our standards, but maybe appreciate the other more ordinary games.

What I used to love ten years ago is pretty much what I still like today.

Is that because they are 'perfect games' or games that when we originally played them we didnt notice the imperfections? [/quote]

[Sidez]

The reason you couldn't play Mario Sunshine is because it's an awful game. Don't believe the hype or the inflated review scores, many people didn't think much of it.

Awful in comparison to SM64, or games in general? Most people seem to really hate SMS just because it wasn't as good as SM64, rather than enjoying it as a brilliant game on it's own that trounces most other platform games.

On its' own merits, Mario Sunshine is complete crap. I played SMS before Mario 64 and frankly the latter is 100 times superior. On the first level I jumped on a koopa trooper, walked onto the shell, Mario invincibility theme kicks in and the ride along the green hills starts. Within five minutes, I was having more fun than I ever had with SMS. The game is so ****, I snapped the disc in half (something i've never done before but it felt so satisfying).

[wazy15]

Sidez, even though SMS is inferior to SM64, I still enjoy it, as it is enjoyable to play. I don't diss a game because it doesn't live upto it's predecessor. You should enjoy a game based upon what it offers. Even though most Zelda titles are never going to kick the special-ness out of LtTP out of me, I will still enjoy them.

[Sidez]

See Sidez the games you highlighted barring SH2 (not my kind of genre) are all games I love, but what about the hundreds of games we criticise that are still very good games but not quite to that standard. I am not saying to lower our standards, but maybe appreciate the other more ordinary games.

What I used to love ten years ago is pretty much what I still like today.

Is that because they are 'perfect games' or games that when we originally played them we didnt notice the imperfections?

[/quote]
I have no intention of appreciating the average games when there are excellent games out there to spend my time on.

I didn't see any flaws in Bubble Bobble back then and I don't see any today.

[Sidez]

Sidez, even though SMS is inferior to SM64, I still enjoy it, as it is enjoyable to play. I don't diss a game because it doesn't live upto it's predecessor. You should enjoy a game based upon what it offers. Even though most Zelda titles are never going to kick the special-ness out of LtTP out of me, I will still enjoy them.

I never derided any pleasure from SMS. Sonic Adventure however, now that is fun. Horses for courses and all that.

[rjpageuk]

I simply do not understand how anyone who has been playing games for more than about 10 minutes can describe Super Mario Sunshine as "awful", "complete crap", "****", and warranting snapping the disc in half(!)

That is just blatant crap. I have no problem with someone not getting on well with a game, or just disliking it or the genre, but to not appreciate any og the qualities of a game such as Super Mario Sunshine just shows an ignorance towards the platforming genre.

Personally I loved Super Mario Sunshine, I even thought it was a better game than SM64 (in just the same way I would say Super Mario World is superior to Super Mario Brothers 3).

Sure it has faults, but then so does SM64 and any other game you care to mention.

I never derided any pleasure from SMS. Sonic Adventure however, now that is fun. Horses for courses and all that.

And I would also like to add that most horses are not even on the same planet as you there, let alone course.

[Corrupt Rose]

Snapped the disc?

Do you wipe your arse with ?50 notes as well? Heh.

Not that for a second I believe you actually did that. That would make you irrational. I'm pretty sure you were just using emotive terms to get across exactly how little you thought of Mario Sunshine. Fine by me... I didn't really get on with it either.

But I just returned it.

And bought a nice roll of arse-friendly, absorbant toilet tissue with some of the money I got in the refund.



@))-------------
The Corrupt Rose

[metal_mutley]

It's like anything else isn't it. The knowledgable 'expert' in us wants to criticise and belittle everything that we know isn't superior. Perhaps it's a point of pride to be able to take a reasonably enjoyable game and destroy it.

Then there's the other part which will spend hours playing something that we 'know' is second rate but which is also great fun. I know that, say, Diablo 2 is totally pointless, and that everyone else on line is ten years younger than me, so what am I doing here, but I enjoy wondering around and dithering in something this futile and skill-less.

[Treble]

What Sidez says is sound enough: there is more Ninty magic in the first few minutes of 64 than in 90% 0f SMS. You have to wait until the odd, non-FLUDD levels of SMS until you feel the old-skool Mario charm kick in.

Even the decision to set the game far from the normal Mario universe has an impact: it's a good platform game, but it ain't Mario. To improve (or even modify) perfection, you don't relocate just to take the heat of yourself - you try harder.

They tried to make SMS like Luigi's Mansion, in that it had no history, and therefore could not suffer unfavourable comparison. What Miyamoto failed to realise was that Luigi had no real history, and therefore nothing to tarnish, whereas Mario had a universe aching to be expanded upon using the power of the GC. What we got was a an above-average platformer set in a non-descript universe.

Miyamoto spread himself far too thinly, imo. Ninty's premier franchise suffers dues to this.

Cookie: to get around the problem you mention, I only play games that enhance or further a genre, have a perfect control method, or are completely new concepts. There are so many games around, it isn't hard to find them. It also helps you get rid of a lot of dross.

[iloveannie]

[quote="Sidez"][quote="srgbilco"]

The game is so ****, I snapped the disc in half (something i've never done before but it felt so satisfying).

Well that's clever. Ever heard of a charity shop, kiddie's hospital, etc. I'm sure someone out there would have been able to appreciate it. Reminds me of the time the KLF burnt their last million.

[JRMacumber]

I am going to make an effort this year to play a game with a less critical eye, and hopefully I can start enjoying the games I play rather than berating a perfectly acceptable game.

:: applaudes loudly from the peanut gallery ::

This is one of the reasons that I don't get into a lot of the business discussions about the games industry. I'll pipe in from time to time, but for the most part I stay out, mainly because it seems to diminish the magic of the games themselves. Same for the movies and music and the rest. The more I know about the behind the scenes stuff, the less of an "experience" the games are, the more cynical I become.

That's also why I don't play hundreds of games a year. The more you play, the more ideas you become exposed to, and the more you see the recycling of those ideas in other games. And so I play fewer games. I think that if I had to play every game that came out, I'd be a cynical hack too. And I don't want to become that. I want to have fun, and keep on having fun.

But that's just me.

[Sidez]

SMS frustrated me, it was a crap game. Whenever I died because of the camera, the hideously fussy fludd-less levels (which were the best part of the game) or simply falling through the floor (nice Q&A there), I took the disc out of the system and chucked it before picking it back up and trying again. I really tried to like it but overall it's appalling.

Somehow I don't think any charities have any use for a Japanese SMS disc that is totally scratched up so by snapping it, I had the last laugh and it stopped me ever wasting my time with that drek again.