Announcement

**spagmasterswift** · 11-08-2005, 12:37

I dont have an Xbox or a phone line

Looks like I'm missing out on some good **** though, probably not as good as Street Fighter 2 arcade in my local chippy during school dinner time...

**Tobal** · 11-08-2005, 13:47

I would rather see CVS 3, with SF3 level sprites/animation. So many un-used fighters from both companies SnK still have a vast amount of ?98+kof?ers that never made it, not including stuff like World Heroes, Garou:Special and Wolves, Last Blade, while capcom have plenty of Alpha,SF3,Vampire,Wizwar,SFex,Rivel Schools to pillage let alone one offs like Dante,Powerstone.

**Jakeway** · 11-08-2005, 16:18

Originally posted by nightstalker100

What about Guile players or fans of Vega? I don't see how the older cast can be considered "baggage", I'd enjoy using them in fresh arenas with new gameplay concepts

You do realise that Remy is basically Guile with as you put it ?new gameplay concepts?. Most of the SFIII cast are true to a character from SFII in some aspect. The new characters in SFIII brought new life into a series that was becoming stagnant. SF2 had so many reworkings that they where running out of words to use in the title.

Street Fighter Dash II Super Turbo Hyper Special Champion Black Belt Edition

Seems to me that most people are more interested in the principles of the Street Fighter Universe then playing the actual game? which really is what its all about.

As for SF recapturing the mainstream? Its success was somewhat based on its visual aspect. It was sold with the SNES as a killer app and most children played it poorly on Xmas day until Mortal Kombat II came out. It will not be possible to recapture a large audience without massive changes and then it will lose its core audience, who are the people pumping the pounds into the franchise. Not only that Beat ?Em Ups are not as popular as they used to be.

I?d love a SF4 with a new cast, maybe bring back a few old characters in their 50?s, which is roughly how old some of them would be now.

**jassi singh** · 11-08-2005, 16:56

Reading through this thread makes me sad!

First off, all related talk to that the current SF3 roster is "****". Lets look at this more carefully shall we. Capcom is one of the game companies in this world that no matter what they do, they will always get ****. For example in the SF2 era, people complained that the updates were nothing more than the same game released with extra\speed\colour pallette. That was about as far as most people took it. Super SF2\Turbo comes out with 4 new fighters and people complain "OMG, only 4? thats rubbish" Funny thing is, not many people picked these new chars anyway, and yet were still complaining.

When SFZ3 came out, people complained even then! Capcom is milking the series etc, its just "fan service". This had the whole of the old cast (home version had the "new challengers" Fei Long, T Hawk Deejay) plus Karin, Sakura, Rolento, Dan, Rose, R.Mika, Guy, Cody, Birdie, Gen, Jun\Juli, Adon, Charlie, Sodom, Akuma, Evil Ryu. These new chars in themselves are enough for a serperate fighting game! While people liked the game, "mainstream" people just thought it was the same game regardless of "ism's" and the new cast. Even the "casual" (hate that word) people who played it just stuck to good old ken and ryu, as it was somthing they were familar with, which is fair enough. They are the two most known\fav chars in the SF universe.

Now, on comes SF3 series with no more than 4 returning cast members (Ken, Ryu, Chun, Akuma), and everyone else is new. Now, all of a sudden the chars that people didnt even touch such as blanka, honda, Zangief, dhalsim, vega, balrog are all of a sudden fan favourites. Come off it, how many people did you know used those characters...hardly anyone, everyone used Ryu and Ken, and those people that were "hardcore" (the use of casual and hardcore is gonna make me sound elitest, but there is no otherway to explain this) used characters such as Balrog\Sagat because of their unique abilities\pressure games\skank. But thats going on a different tangent...so anyway.

As someone earlier said, people didnt like the new cast because of rose tinted glasses syndrome. I admit, i miss the older characters too, but would i have them at the expense of the new ones if i could? hell no. If capcom released SF3 with the old cast in the first of the series "new generation"...yes, maybe it could of been more popular in mainstream, but i doubt it. I gaurantee people would of complained "BOOOO, same old **** from capcom, wheres the new characters blah blah blah." Or, gauranteed "boo, its in crappy 2d, i want 3d SF" which they did release, but still didnt have a big impact. SF3 was just not cool\accepted by newer fans because it wasnt flashy enough in the gfx department, old characters or not.

Capcom wasnt even gonna put Ken and Ryu into SF3 but buckled under pressure from the fans. But their case if different, those two characters are like icons for this genre and game, but the thing is, Capcom cant win with its fans at all.

Also

Originally posted by nightstalker100

I never said they weren't viable, theyre simply not street fighter by any stretch of the imagination and that goes for that little Gandi-esque turd of a yogi Oro and that Zulu princess turned Eddy Gordo Elena.

So, a bald skinny old indian man wearing skulls round his neck and a raggy pair of shorts and breathes fire and can stretch like rubber is your example of a Street Fighter? A oranged hair, green skinned monster from brazil who was raised by beasts YET wears shorts is a SF? If those 2 characters were new in SF3 you would of said exactly the same thing. Also Tekken 3 and SF:NG both came out in 1997...when Eddie Gordo first came to the Tekken series.

Characters are obviosley personal preferance, but, omg Oro is brilliant. He is everything you say he is...he looks harmless, he looks old and frail, he is wearing nothing more than rags. What the **** can he do? A LOT! >_< I love the fact that people think he looks ****, ive surprised many friends when i first used him as he looks like he cant do anything, he is very deceptive which is what i believe Capcom were aiming for.

Oro is easily one of the most dangerous characters in SF3, you just cant let him have a chance to breathe. He has 3 normal fireballs which vary in angle and speed, a dragon punch, rapid air stomps, a command grab, air grab, a homing air jump attack. Also he has secret super moves where he removes the bind from his arm and uses both arms

So in total, he has 6 Super arts! This is also added to the fact that if given a chance, as it is possible for him to juggle a character for 100% damage if you can time and reset the character you are hitting mid air. It is truley brutal that such an old withered man like Oro can do. Thats why he is my favourite character.

He is an old martial arts master, so ****ing tough, that he fears that he can kill during combat, so to refrain himself from doin so, he has binded one of his arms behind his back! He fights with one arm!

Akuma knows Oro, Oro knows Akuma, they are both on the same level, they are both martial arts masters. He is in the SF cannon\ending going to train ryu to become an even bigger beast of a fighter! Ryu with a command grab? omfg.

What did you say Oro? oh wake up you fool!

Oro, Necro and Twelve are the SF3 iterations of the freaks that were in SF2; Blanka, Dhalsim. As you said, people didnt complain about Garou cos the chars that were the replacements were similar to the characters they replaced like the Kim Kaph Hwans kid etc, and Kushinood Butt for Ryo. The same can be said for some of the SF3 cast

Hugo = Zangief. (Grappler
Necro= Dhalsim. (Long distance fighter, just as good keep away game)
Remy- Guile (More moves than Guile in one game than he got in the entire series of SF2. lol)
Q= Balrog. (Dash punches high and low)
Dudley= Balrog (in fighting style alone...another boxer)

[Edit: Jakeway has explained better ^^.

]

There are other similarities in the new cast that mirror the old cast, but im not gonna list them all. All the above characters have somthing similar to remind the player of moves the older fighters had AND then some. If people dont know the extent of the differences well that is their fault and shows how deep they went into playing the game. Im a self confessed SF nut, but anyone would figure this out if they played the game for more than 5 mins, not that im saying you havnt.

If the older cast memebers were in this game, they would have the same old dry moves and tactics...basically, SSF2T with better graphics and animation. Guile would get decked because of his zoning and pressure games to keep the other player grounded by doing sonic booms, and when they jumped flash kick them. Or do sonic booms and walk behind it to catch them in a throw during block stun. If someone parried that sonic boom, he would walk into a fist lol. Remy is a bit trickier due to his dash kick and high and low sonic boom style move.

I love all the old school cast, and people are probably right that they lost some fans cos of the older members wernt in it, but SF came at a time where it would be hard to gain as many new fans as they did with SF2 due to the "3D revolution". What i would agree is the eventual return of these characters now...not before, but now. With a final update of SF3 with the old cast in new SF3 style. But it was for the better that SF3 had an almost full new cast. New moves, new styles rejuvinated the series from being a fireball spam fest to somthing more deeper.

Alot of people also say that the series is dead or whatever, but as Saurian said above, the game is still being played in Tournaments round the world today very very competitively. Tournament DVDs are sold with this game on it alone, match videos and combo videos are released almost daily. Its far from dead just cos some of the people who bought the game as a launch title for the snes do not play this one...maybe to do with other reasons such as they have not got as much time for a game they played as kid as well as the fact they dont like the new chars. Even though, the 2 main chars that were played by "mainstream" (dammit, i hate this quotation mark business) were put back in the game.

End of the day, people will find things to bitch about, especially if it formed part of their childhood. Books, Films, TV shows etc etc. The funny thing is, for the people who say they dont like the way the game is played, the game can still be played like the old school version with ken and ryu. You can do it yourself via system direction or just be ignorant to the fact that capcom have added extra things to the play mechanics.

**TheShend** · 11-08-2005, 19:19

Oddly enough, with the full complement of system direction options unlocked, you can turn into an Alpha game

All SA's available, air blocking etc etc.

**Molloy** · 11-08-2005, 20:13

I think the problem people have with the SF3 characters is they're a bit alien. All that morphing stuff seems more at home in a series like Marvel Vs Capcom. It kind of pushed too far into that anime asthetic whereas Street Fighter 2 characters were more gritty and realistic.

As Saur says you just won't win over console gamers with this stuff now. That's why Capcom are putting in all that leveling up, collecting, questing bollocks into Soul Calibur 3. People don't want "just a Vs fighter".

Casuals in Japan play lots of VF4 and SF3. Lots of the best players don't even own home consoles. It's just a whole different culture. And I wish we had a bit more of it over here. There's nothing I love more than going to an arcade, playing a few games, watching a couple of pros play SF, see a guy rinse a shmup, and then play a few games. I could spend 20 hours a week in the arcade if they were priced at less ridiculous levels.

**jassi singh** · 11-08-2005, 20:29

Originally posted by Molloy

I think the problem people have with the SF3 characters is they're a bit alien. All that morphing stuff seems more at home in a series like Marvel Vs Capcom. It kind of pushed too far into that anime asthetic whereas Street Fighter 2 characters were more gritty and realistic.

Yeah cos gravity defying hurricane kicks and spinning bird kicks, fireballs, breathing fire at the same time as shouting "YOGA FLAME!", electrecuting green beasts from brazil, a sumo wrestler who can fly across the room are all more realistic.

yes...they are.

And Morphing stuff?! There is one character who does that...thats it, and the strectchy limbs of necro have been seen in SF2 Dhalsim. They are both "expirements" one gone wrong (necro) and one successful one (Twelve) how they dont fit into the same catagory of realistic as a plane crashed child over a tropical jungle of brazil only to be raised by beasts and learn electrecution attacks...oh and be greener than a green thing. As i said before, its hard for some people to accept the removal of some of the classic characters, but they are no way less removed then them. Rose tints strike again. They are the freaks of SF3, same way as Blanka and Dhalsim were the freaks of SF2.

Originally posted by Molloy

As Saur says you just won't win over console gamers with this stuff now. That's why Capcom are putting in all that leveling up, collecting, questing bollocks into Soul Calibur 3. People don't want "just a Vs fighter".

You mean Namco...and theres nothing wrong with extra home only modes, gives the game somthing else and more longevity to those who wish select that option. You find out more about your favourite characters storyline and about the universe. You are not forced to do it, as with past SC, the game also has its Arcade intact version too. So if it bothers you, dont select that game mode, you still have the original arcade version.

Originally posted by Molloy

Casuals in Japan play lots of VF4 and SF3. Lots of the best players don't even own home consoles. It's just a whole different culture. And I wish we had a bit more of it over here. There's nothing I love more than going to an arcade, playing a few games, watching a couple of pros play SF, see a guy rinse a shmup, and then play a few games. I could spend 20 hours a week in the arcade if they were priced at less ridiculous levels.

Its got to be accepted, Arcades are slowly dieing. Be that because of home consoles, development costs, or low returns from majority of machines.

Also, forgot to mention in the above rant, that the reason for the updates by capcom including the SF2 series, Zero and III series is for tweeking and balancing.

A fighting game is a different animal to the other games, as the developers cant find all the bugs and exploits in a game during production, so once the game has been out for a while, feedback from the players comes back and for the revision they tone down certain moves or characters. Which is really important otherwise the games would get ruined by balance issues and ruin the competitivness and Tourney worthyness of the game. CE Bison, SF2 Turbo Ken, World Warrior Guile, Duo Lon (sp) from KOF 2003 [he is a well known character said to be game breaking] Jin from Tekken 4 and Steve and Nina from the most recently released Tekken 5 all have moves and attacks\techniques which were plainly just too damaging and abusable. Tekken 5.1 with some of the player feedback and qaulms of this version to be tweeked and rectified.

Its also been rumoured that the reason Namco are releasing Soul Calibur 3 on PS2 first, is in effect to have the worlds biggest Beta test.

Release the game to the public to play in their homes and sit and wait for all the info, bugs, exploits, skank moves from message boards and the grapevine to filter back to them in double quick time. Take all that info onboard, release a budget version of "SC3:Evolution" for the console (for example), and also release that tweaked and bug free game that has been play tested by thousands of fans into the arcades for competitive and tournament shananigans.

**nightstalker100** · 11-08-2005, 22:42

Boy is that some vehement defense of the game

**jassi singh** · 11-08-2005, 22:44

aye, cos to actually have some basis for an argument is a good thing...

**nightstalker100** · 11-08-2005, 22:51

Disliking a cast is enough basis for an argument

**jide** · 11-08-2005, 22:51

Originally posted by nightstalker100

Disliking a cast is enough basis for an argument

Aye while we will enjoy 3s goodness

**nightstalker100** · 11-08-2005, 22:53

Hey, i've put in 2 hours on the game today whipping half wits like twelve

**Leon Retro** · 12-08-2005, 05:20

Imo SF1 was a pile of turkey that deserved to be laughed at. With No2 Capcom thought they were taking a risk resurrecting the StreetFighter name- but with a lot of hard-work and vision they produced one of the greateast games of all time SF2.

People here are saying crap about Street Fighter was a 5minute wonder for little kids and their SuperNintendos- but that is bollocks. In 1991 I was a kid and the arcades were packed with people playing the game all over Britain. SF2 arcade machines were constantly surrounded by people eager to have Vs battles. This game was far more than a pretty face that captivated people- it was all about the gameplay. Gamers loved learning moves and showing them off in the arcades and eventually at home.

Even in the mid 90's I would walk in to an arcade and see people playing SF2- everywhere I went from Chip Shops to comic shops- anywhere there was a machine I would see people enjoying 2-player fights.

Of course one of the main appeals of SF2 was it's visuals. Great characters that everyone knew- excellent stages that everyone loved and brilliant graphics-sound and animation. It was the gameplay that gripped people though; this wasn't some gimmicky Mortal Kombat!

Of course hardcore gamers and Street Fighter obsessives enjoy SF3 and forgive it for not being truely next generation 2D. The average gamer though wants something stunning- a game that takes the genre to the next level.

I think Capcom have what it takes given the right commitment and vision to produce a new 2D Street Fighter that will make a major impact beyond the hardcore. I think a lot of people are being very small-minded and pessimistic regarding any potential sequel. Who know's how amazing a truely revolutionary Street Fighter could be until we see one!

**eastyy** · 12-08-2005, 08:13

Its not that i personally dont like the characters in Sf3/sf2 its just i love combos.There fore some characters i enjoy playing and others i don't but its not because there bad characters (after all i am sure many people whould have got whipped by zangief/dhalsim/Twelve/Q at some point) but then again that same thing could probably be said for nearly all fighting games

**TheShend** · 12-08-2005, 10:49