"When did it get dark?" - views from the workplace

[El Geet]

It's a sad indictment but it can be a lonely hobby.

This i agree with. While I've held and been tp gaming 'parties' and such like in these cases its the booze that brings people as much as anyone and (not that I'm complainig - I love 'em) its the party games such as Samba and DDR that get played. But I've never really known anyone who I can ring up and say 'Fancy a VF4 Evo session tonight then?'...

So yeah - it can be a lonely hobby ft:

Absolutely. Funnily enough the last 2 friday nights I've had people coming back for a bit of Samba. They find it very hard though...in fact I don't particularly excel. (Is ver.2000 more difficult or something?) People generally have a better laugh on Drum Expert. And the real crowd pleaser? Get this...Virtua Tennis! This to me speaks volumes. Easily identfiable environment, easy as pie controls!

[Scythe]

Games will go the same way as music and movies...the mass market will watch/buy/listen to crap and some of us will actually go out and find decent examples...Lets face it if the mass market excepted gaming as some people think they would like it to we (and others like us) would have nothing to feel superior about!!!

[Squirtle]

(slightly OT I know but do you not find this? Time seems to become compressed and the hours just dissappear...)

Yep, hence the title to the thread.

"Whed did it get dark?"

[Ady]

Don't get me started on porn :P. Seriously, the realtive absence of sexual content compared with any other media is one of the main reasons why videogames are dissmissed as kiddy. Ironically, it seems to be a prejudice that even serious gamers have bought into. You can't have a game that turns you on because it's 'not real' and that makes it 'sad'. You should have seen some of the scraps we had on the Edge board about that before it went on vacation. Well picaso's erotic art wasn't 'real' either, but it works for me.

Ah yes. I remember you.

Listen, pornography ii games will only make it appear even ::more:: sad to the mainsteam. Also, you never really stated how sex could really complement gameplay beyond lowest common denominator gimmickry.

In other words, I don't see how graphic CG of video game characters banging away would suddenly make gaming more acceptable to the mainstream.

[Miyamoto's Evil Twin]

Don't get me started on porn :P. Seriously, the realtive absence of sexual content compared with any other media is one of the main reasons why videogames are dissmissed as kiddy. Ironically, it seems to be a prejudice that even serious gamers have bought into. You can't have a game that turns you on because it's 'not real' and that makes it 'sad'. You should have seen some of the scraps we had on the Edge board about that before it went on vacation. Well picaso's erotic art wasn't 'real' either, but it works for me.

Ah yes. I remember you.

Listen, pornography ii games will only make it appear even ::more:: sad to the mainsteam. Also, you never really stated how sex could really complement gameplay beyond lowest common denominator gimmickry.

In other words, I don't see how graphic CG of video game characters banging away would suddenly make gaming more acceptable to the mainstream.

And i remember you too I wasn't talking about banging away, just an awareness that sex and sexuality exists to make it comparable with other media and more rellavent to the way we live life. Annd I'm not talking abouot this generation really, it's nearly over. Who knows what the next round of machines will do. But I don't want to hijack this very interesting thread. It's a discussion no doubt we'll return to another time.

cheers

[El Geet]

Don't get me started on porn :P. Seriously, the realtive absence of sexual content compared with any other media is one of the main reasons why videogames are dissmissed as kiddy. Ironically, it seems to be a prejudice that even serious gamers have bought into. You can't have a game that turns you on because it's 'not real' and that makes it 'sad'. You should have seen some of the scraps we had on the Edge board about that before it went on vacation. Well picaso's erotic art wasn't 'real' either, but it works for me.

I was involved in some of those little debates...I thought I'd stumbled into a young conservative forum or something. Without wishing to start another debate on the merits of porn, why is it available in every form of mass media yet on not on consoles? (I realise that in Japan they exist...surely an indication of the maturity of the platform?)

@Ady
How can gaming be more sad? As for appealing to the mainstream I think you'll find most males between 12 and 80 would be curious at the very least! As for gimmicky and not contributing to gameplay that is a slight generalisation but you are probably right; since when has that stopped the mainstream? If anything gimmick seems to be a far greater motivator than gameplay...unfortunately.

[Ady]

I was involved in some of those little debates...I thought I'd stumbled into a young conservative forum or something. Without wishing to start another debate on the merits of porn, why is it available in every form of mass media yet on not on consoles? (I realise that in Japan they exist...surely an indication of the maturity of the platform?)

The emphasis here is GAMEplay. You know, the whole ::game:: part? I hardly see what's 'conservative' about wanting the game part of video games to be the focal point, rather than some facile selling point.

We're all adults, we've all had sex so I don't see there's a problem there, but if somebody can tell me how making games more 'sexy' will make them more playable, then I'm all ears.

As for acknowledging sexual themes, many games already do, and have done since the 80s.

How can gaming be more sad? As for appealing to the mainstream I think you'll find most males between 12 and 80 would be curious at the very least!

But this thread is about making gaming more acessible to mainstream audiences in general, rather than preserving the same gender cul-de-sac mentality. Trust me, your uninformed female friends won't lke gaming more if Meryl gets her tits out in cutscenes in Metal Gear 50.

Gaming is alrady seen in part as a sad pursuit for undersexed males. Your suggestions will only ::ahem:: conserve that mindset.

As for gimmicky and not contributing to gameplay that is a slight generalisation but you are probably right; since when has that stopped the mainstream? If anything gimmick seems to be a far greater motivator than gameplay...unfortunately.

True, but should gaming be made more mainstream at the expense of itself?

Anyway, I don't want to go into this now either...

[Xexex]

Strange it's sony though. The whole concept seems pure nintendo. Games literally for all ages. No barriers to entry. Pure party fun and very cheap to develop. Miyamoto said he was shocked at the simple brilliance of parapper the rappper and tamigotchi. Well i bet he's kicking himself over this.

(Eye Toy)

Sounds like he is - in the Edge Gamecube Equip, he's asked about it and doesn't seem to know much. It's something I'm considering getting a PS2 for.

[El Geet]

The emphasis here is GAMEplay. You know, the whole ::game:: part? I hardly see what's 'conservative' about wanting the game part of video games to be the focal point, rather than some facile selling point.

We're all adults, we've all had sex so I don't see there's a problem there, but if somebody can tell me how making games more 'sexy' will make them more playable, then I'm all ears.

As for acknowldging sexual themes, many games already do, anad have done since the 80s.

You didn't want to get into it but you have. The conservative attitude I was referring to was to dismiss pornography as unacceptable and distasteful. Perhaps that was the wrong choice of words.

The emphasis here, as far as I understood it, was how do games become more mass market which in turn I took to mean how do they sell more. My slightly toungue in cheek comment was referring to the fact that sex sells whether you like it or not.

I'm afraid you will find it nigh on impossible to convince a mass market to play the games you (and me) believe to be 'better' in terms of gameplay...I hope, in time, I will be proved wrong but one only needs to look at all other forms of mass media to see what the mass market wants. I don't see any remakes of Citizen Kane in the pipeline; I don't see Loaded dealing with important issues; I don't see any sector thriving more than the pornography sector on the internet...

But this thread is about making gaming more acessible to mainstream audiences in general, rather than preserving the same gender cul-de-sac mentality. Trust me, your uninformed female friends won't lke gaming more if Meryl gets her tits out in cutscenes in Metal Gear 50.

Gaming is alrady seen in part as a sad pursuit for undersexed males. Your suggestions will only ::ahem:: conserve that mindset.

I can see where you're coming from but I think it's a slightly naive attitude. The gender cul-de-sac is there not because devcos/publishers want to sell less product but quite the opposite. Companies cater for their market. Frankly, should I care what any uninformed person thinks? It's almost lke saying girls don't like DVDs because there are porno DVDs. I'm not suggesting you throw in a gratuitous pair of tits at every opportunity.

True, but should gaming be made more mainstream at the expense of itself?

I hope there will be enough for everyone. One porn game in ten is not going to taint the entire market, surely. It's almost a circular argument for gaming to become more mainstream expect more and more dross (by our standards).

[saif]

alright people?
meryl added a lot to mgs and it was a mature (relatively) exploration of a a non-platonic relationship. I think that is what is meant when you should add some sexiness to games.