DOA3 better than VF4e

[Saurian]

I hear that totally.

[Nimmel]

Saur,

you have to realise that the culture here is different to Japan. Peeps here still have video games classed as a geeks toy. Of course the playstation has made it more sociable in terms of games like fifa and GTA. But to get deep into a game requires time patience and most importantly, hard work. Which the japanese are renowned for. In our society pub and bars are where the majority of peeps spend there time. As such the attention span is less so. Therfore DOA 3 is more suitable. Besides, a game which looks good, is easy to beat, and is a cheap thrill (ala bouncing chests) will always grab attention. The Japanese have had to work hard all there lives, its in their up bringing. Im not gonna get into politics and ****e, but the fact is England is a lazy country compared to most. Please dont flame me, cos its a perception im come across many times.

112

Yes the Japanese are sooooo much better than us.

How old are you out of interest? If you're older than 20 you should be ashamed of your myopic view point.

And calling England a lazy country is the final f**king straw we work more hours than any other country in the EU perhaps thats why we have so little time to play games.

Argggggggggggggggggggggggggh. ft:

[112]

chill man! Sorry if i offend you but i will not argue over this cos its not worth it. Dont take offence please.

112

[Nimmel]

chill man! Sorry if i offend you but i will not argue over this cos its not worth it. Dont take offence please.

That's cool I just don't like an entire country (including the one I happend to be born in) being described as lazy. Anyways it's Friday and soon I shall be frequenting one of these "pub and bars" that you speak of, unless of course I get sucked into Live again.

[PeteJ]

The main point by 112 was correct however, as a nation we are ashamed of having a hobby. It's a problem that unfortuantely stems from the media, though misconceptions and a complete lack of knowledge on any specific subject.

I used to hide the fact that I enjoyed games, but I realised that I was being foolish. My love of gaming is is now one of the stand-out features on my CV, and I'll openly talk about the subject in public.

I think things will improve in this country, we just need people with knowledge to get into the right places.

[Kei]

The main point by 112 was correct however, as a nation we are ashamed of having a hobby. It's a problem that unfortuantely stems from the media, though misconceptions and a complete lack of knowledge on any specific subject.

Yeah work people to me are like "huh what?!? how old are you? LOSER!"


K

[112]

Petej,

you can take a horse to water, but you cant make it drink it.........

I hope you are right, but i dont see it happening in this generation, pehaps further down the line. There are a lot of social inadequacies which need to be addressed first. However, aren't we going off topic a bit here? sorry!

112

[optimusomega]

Regarding the work ethic of games, the 'work' put in shoudn't be felt as if it is work, if your enjoying a game you want to put more in and as a consequence get better, better not to analyse the process but just let it take you over

[Soi]

Regarding the work ethic of games, the 'work' put in shoudn't be felt as if it is work, if your enjoying a game you want to put more in and as a consequence get better, better not to analyse the process but just let it take you over

Yeah, a game should not be painful to play. I gave up on Shenmue when I reaslised that playing it was more boring and job-like than my real life job. I'd leave work (real life), go home and then play spend a game 'day' driving crates around whilst looking forward to the 10 mintutes of Hang On I'd get after 'work'.

[optimusomega]

Regarding the work ethic of games, the 'work' put in shoudn't be felt as if it is work, if your enjoying a game you want to put more in and as a consequence get better, better not to analyse the process but just let it take you over

Yeah, a game should not be painful to play. I gave up on Shenmue when I reaslised that playing it was more boring and job-like than my real life job. I'd leave work (real life), go home and then play spend a game 'day' driving crates around whilst looking forward to the 10 mintutes of Hang On I'd get after 'work'.

Luckily I played it when I wern't working(shenmue) so it seemed less of a chore.
I agree that even if some peeps say a games good if you yourself don't enjoy it after giving it a chance then I say STOP playing.

[optimusomega]

I remember when I was playing GTA:vice city that game was just soo painful to complete, I just shouldn't have put myself through it I could have been playing something more enjoyable.

[Concept]

Regarding the work ethic of games, the 'work' put in shoudn't be felt as if it is work, if your enjoying a game you want to put more in and as a consequence get better, better not to analyse the process but just let it take you over

I partly agree with that, but sometimes it depends on a game's aims. I don't think every title out there is strictly designed to be 'fun' or enjoyed. Perhaps the work ethic of getting a job in Shenmue is an intended effect made to create a situation in the mind of the player, so they immerse themselves within Ryo's role more easily?

Waiting for those last ten minutes of Hang-On at the end of a day mirrors the feeling your character is probably expressing in-game. Not only that, it consequently makes the importance of a mini-game that much more important. Sure, you can level a criticism by claiming all games should be "fun" because they are entertainment.

But I think entertainment isn't the be all and end all of gaming. For example, I felt compelled to play Silent Hill 3, but did I enjoy it in the traditional sense of the word?

No.

I played it because the game offered me something different to the recognised conventions of videogame "entertainment". I think that's also what some other games try and achieve. Sometimes making a player feel as frustrated, as though they have to work, instills a sense of achievement and relief when they get through to the end of their particular task.

I know that the relative tedium of the crate job sure emphasised and increased the meaning of the evening pay packet to me that much more, because I worked to get that money and that money represents and ultimately justifies the work I went through.

And hence using that money on the in-game commodities to"chill" out in essence defines the importance of your choice in the game world. You're spending the money you earned after a hard day on the things you want.

Was it fun achieving this aim? Most likely not, but in context of character and narrative, that feeling installed in the player is relative and consistent to the connection underpining their interaction.

[Soi]

Good points Concept. My problem with the crate task in Shenmue is that after a hard day's real life work, the last thing I wanted to do is really get involved and empathise with a character that has a really boring job.

A game like Shenmue is all about escapism. Shenmue is exceptionally good (imo) at this, and the fact that I genuunley looked forward to 10 mins of Hang-On per hour or so of play is proof of that. But the simple fact is, with Shenmue, I didn't find the world to which I escaped to be very entertaining. However, as optimusmega alludes to above, if I hadn't had a job at the time, maybe the crate task would not have seemed so tedious. I loved the game up to that point.

Silent Hill on the other hand is not 'enjoyable' in the happy happy let's all have a good time sense of the word, but it is great escapism. It scared the pants off me, and I thought it excellent and fantasitc entertainment.

[PeteJ]

Good point, Concept.

I think it all comes down to the undefined, ubiquitous term that is Gameplay. If something provokes a reaction that does not repeal and draw you back in, then it can safely be defined as having good gameplay.

It didn't have 'fun' with Shenmue, and often it would repeal me from the experience due to various quirks, but it also brought me back at the end of the day. I touched on something similar for the review - the occasional Lows in gameplay help to maximise the effect during the emotive highs. Pleasure\ Pain?

[Ish]

Concept - I once asked put question "Do videogames need to be entertaining?" on the edge forums. It got a mixed response. Some people feeling you had to have 'traditional fun' and others agreeing with me (and by the sounds of it you) that a game doesn't have to be fun but that it does have to provoke some kind of reaction and feel rewarding in some way.

For me respective examples of this would have to be Civilisation - never ever have I known a game that continued to open up and present new strategies in it like that one (and II and III). By the sounds of it VF4 Evo has the same hook but with a more direct twist (I wouldn't say cerebral as by the sounds of it VF4 Evo can be as cerebral as you make it).

On the other hand I can get it from work and just feeling like shooting the **** out of something. That'd be time for TimeSplitters then .