Nintendo says NO! to Hard games!

[eastyy]

well nothing takes the fun out of PC fps games more then having your finger near the quicksave key at all times ..........

[Dogg Thang]

Yeah, that's where it really has to depend on the game. I agree with the philosophy of Lego Star Wars for what it is, and love that there are games like that out there.

But, for some games, if there are no consequences to getting something wrong then that can remove the point of the gameplay. Some games are just trial and error. Some are about careful planning and execution. A 'save anywhere' system or 'start back exactly where you are with no consequence' system turns the latter into the former.

[c00ke5ter]

Are we not missing something here - difficulty levels?

A well designed storyline\game should be enjoyed as much by the casual gamer on easy as it is the hardcore "I want a screen full of enemies" on super hard level?

Both can work through the game, discovering things and feeling a sense of achievement. Maybe the ability to switch difficulties mid game? I usually start a game on "normal" but if working through too quickly I'd stack it up, or bring it down if I got totally stonewalled.

There does not have to be a "global decision" by a software house, just ensure every game produced has selectable difficulty levels, everyone happy, job done...

[MattyD]

But sometimes the difficulty isn't found in something you could adjust easily, such as how harshly you are penalised for getting it wrong (i.e. losing more energy when hit in hard more) but the complexity of the game itself. A game like DMC or Ninja Gaiden would still be beyond most casual player's abilities even on the easy settings because they don't have the same mindset as the core audience for those kinds of games. They don't necessarily interpret the queues they are given or understand unspoken but long-running conventions like bosses having weak points and attack patterns.

I think this is more what Nintendo is talking about - making games simpler and more accessible rather than less punishing. But as I said before, Nintendo games have never been unduly 'hard' in either respect.

[Ryo Saeba]

I think this is more what Nintendo is talking about - making games simpler and more accessible rather than less punishing. But as I said before, Nintendo games have never been unduly 'hard' in either respect.

If that's actually the case, then I would be all for it, if the games are still hard to master. Accessibility and a clean and simple design doesn't sound bad to me.

Many hardcore arcade titles are relatively simple and accessable, yet hard to master. Nintendo has always been good at this and I don't see them getting worse (Wii Sports is a good example imo).

When we pay £40 or whatever (I'm more arsed about the 12-36 months of wasted hype over cash, anyday) we want more than just 8hrs of a 'from start-to-finish' run-through of some rechurnable franchise cash-in.

Some of us aren't 7-9yr old gamers. We expect more. Simple as.

And neither are some of us 13-18 year old teens, who have ridiculous amounts of time to burn.
I for myself expect shorter games around the 1 to 5 hour mark (with high replayability) for less money.
That's why I buy way more budget titles and used games than ever before.

[rmoxon]

Ive recently been playing super mario sunshine again, that is a game that has some tremndously hard bits but you dont actually have to do many of them (if any) to actually just complete the game. If you want to be hardcore and get all 120 shines though then you have to, nintendo have always been about this. just look at somthing like kirbys adventure... one of the easiest games ever to complete yet actually really challenging if you want to REALLY complete it and find all the hidden bits.

this is nothing new at all really nintendo have always wanted to appeal to casual players.

[mekanor]

Ive recently been playing super mario sunshine again, that is a game that has some tremndously hard bits but you dont actually have to do many of them (if any) to actually just complete the game. If you want to be hardcore and get all 120 shines though then you have to, nintendo have always been about this. just look at somthing like kirbys adventure... one of the easiest games ever to complete yet actually really challenging if you want to REALLY complete it and find all the hidden bits.

this is nothing new at all really nintendo have always wanted to appeal to casual players.

Agreed. A lot of Nintendo games seem to be like this. New Super Mario Bros for example, I bought on the day it came out and had finished it in a few days of casual playing but its only recently that I got 100% on it. True this was only playing it once in a while and a lot of the difficulty was just finding the bonuses rather than getting them but I do seem to remember being challenged at some points.

Metroid Prime 1 & 2 are also good examples except that they're actually hard pretty much all the time. I didn't die much in either game but the amount of times I got stuck and had to actually think about what I had to do next more than made up for the easy non-boss enemies. The bosses on the other hand, often caused me a bit of grief, especially metroid prime and emperor ing.

well, there's hard and then theres just annoying, most games that are considered "hard" are really just piss poor design, badly placed checkpoints and unskipable cut-scenes will make me abandon a game way faster than just it being a bit tough.

The unskipable cut-scenes is the kind of hard that I hate. Whilst I can't say this is a problem in many of the nintendo developed games I've played, the first example that comes to mind is Paper Mario on the gamecube. I really love this game but the shadow queen was a killer. After taking it a but too easy the first time I fought her, I died once and had to start again. Annoying but nothing major as there was a save station not to far away. Only problem was after you beat her first form there is a cut-scene that goes for about 10 minutes... and you can't skip it.