A year on

[sj33]

I guess Mario Kart Wii would be a good indicator to them as to if there is a market for traditional games w/ online play on Wii.

[Bada Bing!]

If they just gave me Mario Kart in 480i as it looked on SNES with online play I'd be delighted.



Seriously, making that game 3D facking killed it.

[Ady]

I guess Mario Kart Wii would be a good indicator to them as to if there is a market for traditional games w/ online play on Wii.

Mario Strikers was a "traditional game with online play". A very good one at that. Most people just ignored it, though.

[Tetsuo]

I'd have been happier if Nintendo had created a powerhouse console with amazing new versions of F-Zero, Pilotwings, Wave Race, Mario Galaxy ( with 4x Anti-Aliasing ) ...

Isn't that exactly what the Gamecube tried to be and subsequently didn't sell and was abandoned by most retailers as a result?

It didn't work, and Nintendo have taken this squarely on the chin and come up with something based on that experience.

And they're now the market leader.

Quoted again because it's spot on with my interpretation of Nintendo's approach with Wii, too.

[elkatas]

I guess Mario Kart Wii would be a good indicator to them as to if there is a market for traditional games w/ online play on Wii.

Guitar Hero III proves that there is. It has over 700 000 unique connections per week, and is second popular game on the service, right after Pokemon Diamond / Pearl that pulls 1.4 million unique connections per week. For comparision, Strikers had only around 250 000 connections per week during its peak time, and Battalion Wars had only 50 000.

[Ady]

Isn't that exactly what the Gamecube tried to be and subsequently didn't sell and was abandoned by most retailers as a result?

It didn't work, and Nintendo have taken this squarely on the chin and come up with something based on that experience.

And they're now the market leader.

I actually started to write a post to this effect a few pages back, but decided not to bother in the end. You put it more succinctly than I was going to, though.

Thing is, the GC was not only abandoned by retailers, but by many of the very same gamers who now say they wish Nintendo had just gone the graphics route. I still remember GC games like Sunshine being savagely torn to pieces on this forum and elsewhere.

Just can't win either way...

[eastyy]

ah with the GC kindoff felt like ages between the games that i personally liked

also the fact the delays for pal releases were huge ...to be honest it feels the same with the wii supermario sunshine i will get the last game i got before that was prime 3 and before that residient evil 4

[Bada Bing!]

The delays between PAL releases really were terrible weren't they? From memory, Wind Waker, Sunshine, and Metroid Prime were all ready to be launched at xmas time but Nintendo chose to leave it a few months and let everyone have a chance to buy themselves a PS2.

The marketing was piss poor too.

Very similar to the Dreamcast in many ways. The difference being the Gamecube rose from the ashes and became a hit console, with the right marketing and some insightful mods in the frm of the Wii.

[gossi the dog]

Regarding the lack of third party support for the Wii. I think the problem is that traditionally third party software hasn't sold that well on Nintendo hardware. Yes, there are always exceptions that sell well, but Nintendo's own games are usually of such a high standard that third party games tend to get drowned out. I'd be interested to see how many third party games sold more than a million on the Gamecube - I doubt other than Resident Evil 4 and various Sonic games there will be many.

[Ady]

This is often said about Nintendo consoles (3rd party games selling poorly), but I don't buy it, myself. The SNES had plenty of 3rd party support.

I'd also venture that the reason a lot of 3rd party games haven't sold well on post-SNES Nintendo hardware is because many of the 3rd party games that make it to Nintendo consoles haven't been very good. The best 3rd party titles go to PlayStation consoles.

[Team Andromeda]

This is often said about Nintendo consoles (3rd party games selling poorly), but I don't buy it, myself. The SNES had plenty of 3rd party support.

I'd also venture that the reason a lot of 3rd party games haven't sold well on post-SNES Nintendo hardware is because many of the 3rd party games that make it to Nintendo consoles haven't been very good. The best 3rd party titles go to PlayStation consoles.

The Snes had plenty of 3rd party support becasue most developers were still locked in to thier NES deal and could only make games for NCL machines , that and the Snes have 90% of the Jp market always helped .It's also a bit insulting when I see people say most of the 3rd party games weren't that good , to me some of the best games onthe Cube and N64 were ones by 3rd parties and it wasn't like NCL output was great onthe Cube, and thats looking over how NCL all but gave up onthe N64 during it was couple of years . NCL its self lost the like of Square and Capcom with its handling of the N64

If The Wii had better spec it would help matter I think, it must be so limiting making games for the Wii. When you can really make impressive worlds on next gen consoles , and the Ram and better GPU gives the developer a better chance to meet thier desgin breif, and NCL online stance is like somthing from the dark ages.

People can say graphics and sound don't count , but thats just rubbish . Almost all developers will want more power given the choice .

[Ady]

If The Wii had better spec it would help matter I think, it must be so limiting making games for the Wii. When you can really make impressive worlds on next gen consoles , and the Ram and better GPU gives the developer a better chance to meet thier desgin breif, and NCL online stance is like somthing from the dark ages.

People can say graphics and sound don't count , but thats just rubbish . Almost all developers will want more power given the choice .

I was wondering when someone would bring up graphics.

This argument, of course doesn't stand up whatsoever because:

1. Developers were able to create "impressive worlds" on previous gen machines OK. The Wii, being next-gen is at least more powerful than any of those machines, even if it is not as powerful as the other two current-gen consoles. Therefore, it should be more than possible to make impressive looking games (see Metroid Prime 3).

2. The PS2 was technically the weakest machine of the last gen. That did NOT stop developers from creating visually pleasing games either (Ico, God of War etc...). So again, developers citing the lack of graphical horsepower on the Wii as a reason for not making games are making excuses. Particularly considering that it is CHEAPER to develop for the Wii than any of the other two machines.

3. Nintendo itself has, thus far been able to create games with "impressive worlds" on the Wii (see point 1). Also, it's not like the N64 days where it deliberately witheld its libraries and such from 3rd parties.

The graphics thing is largely hyperbole anyway. The way people talk, you wouldn't think the Wii was any more graphically capable than the PS1!

[Team Andromeda]

1. Developers were able to create "impressive worlds" on previous gen machines OK. The Wii, being next-gen is at least more powerful than any of those machines, even if it is not as powerful as the other two current-gen consoles. Therefore, it should be more than possible to make impressive looking games (see Metroid Prime 3).

And developers were able to make impressive worlds onthe PS and Saturn , but people move on and so does tech . Honestly if you a developer like IW what machine would you rather make COD IV on , the Wii or a next gen system like XBox 360 ? , And I've seen nothing onthe Wii that looks better than the best looking X-Box games

The PS2 was technically the weakest machine of the last gen.

We all know that was Market share. Given the choice I bet most developers would have just liked to develop onthe Cube or X-Box. Tell me this which version of RE 4 did you rather play , the PS2 or the Cube version ?

Nintendo itself has, thus far been able to create games with "impressive worlds"

I've only been impressed with Mario , I know people rave about Prime III, but its doesn't look much better than a Cube game , and not as impressive as somthing like Riddick onthe X-Box (looking over the frame rate, which does show the skill of Retro ) .


If the Wii had a more ram (always holds deveopers back no matter the system)) and a more powerfull GPU I wouldn't mind betting that the Wii would have got more support from the big teams inside Konami ect .
I don't think many developers relish the chance of working on hardware no better than the X-Box , when they have the opportunity of working on the system like the 360 , if you're a big team
Which version of RE are the fans more looking too, The Wii version, or the full on RE 5 with impressive next gen graphics , and I bet the RE5 team are having a hoot with what they're able to push onthe next gen .


Looking over cost and marketshare I don't think many developers would want to limit them selfs, and would always go for the most powerful system if costs and market share weren't a issue.
Sure more power doesn't really change the gameplay that much, but its just lets you do that bit more and if you're making a sim , make it look that bit more real .

I mean COD IV doesn't play that much diff from the Previous versions , but boy do the graphics alone make all the diff and really suck the game player in . The Night bombing mission (COD IV) in gameplay terms could be done onthe PS, but next gen fillters and effects make it for me one of the best levels I've ever played , and all help to create a Immense atmosphere

[Dogg Thang]

And I've seen nothing onthe Wii that looks better than the best looking X-Box games

That's true but there's nothing on the DS that looks better than most PSP games. That doesn't mean they won't sell better.

It also reduces development costs.

So lower dev costs + higher sales = no brainer.

[Ajay1986]

Lower dev costs is right but lets remember that devs are humans, and whilst making money is clearly the priority for the company i'd wager most developers want to be working with the latest technology.

I recently got my first job since l left uni at a software house in York, now i know personally im not making games but if i had to use older platforms and languages for what im doing i wouldn't be all that happy. If i imaganie myself at a games company well tbh i'd be gutted if i had to work on a Wii title.

It might well be cheaper to develop a game on but thats only because you cant achieve anywhere near what is possible on the PS3 or 360, time will only continue to prove that imo.