Current PS3, and 360 sales debate

[Brad]

Indeed, are they going to purchase enough brand new games in order for Sony to recoup the loss they took on each of those machines?

Good point but I was just talking hardware sales figures and pointing out that now that hd-dvd is dead there are some people who are buying ps3s as blu-ray players just as some bought PS2s as DVD players back in the day.

[Matt]

Not unless the quality of games on the PS3 improves soon...

Those comments make me laugh. They're a throwback to the PS3s launch. Recently getting a PS3, I've been delighted with the number of exclusive titles available, and have played some good games - nothing as ball bustingly great as Gears, but some good titles.

If you only had 1 console, you'd be very happy with the PS3. Most multiplatform titles one well enough - not an endorsement, I'm appalled at the apparenty lazziness of devs porting 360 code over, but unless you had the two titles side by side, you wouldn't notice the differences (usually lower res textures, as an example).

Add in the new titles appearing, and the PS3 looks a great machine to me. Come on admit it, if there was an 8 player co-op first person shooter, with 60 players online, coming to the 360, some people on this forum would be stroking themselves with excitement

[Matt]

Good point but I was just talking hardware sales figures and pointing out that now that hd-dvd is dead there are some people who are buying ps3s as blu-ray players just as some bought PS2s as DVD players back in the day.

I don't know how much money Sony make on each game sold, or each BR. But yes, they probably won't make the loss of the console with those people.

On the other hand, that's a couple more hardware sales to put on the PS3 and BR charts - the more sold, the more developers will get behind it; the more / better the games, the more the console will sell.

It's kind of logical

[EvilBoris]

More games coming out doesn't equals more games sold. Look at the Wii, it will get to a point where developers don't bothered releasing anything decent for it because they get lost in the sea of Neopets games and 3rd rate "training" games.

[Matt]

More games coming out doesn't equals more games sold. Look at the Wii, it will get to a point where developers don't bothered releasing anything decent for it because they get lost in the sea of Neopets games and 3rd rate "training" games.

I meant the more "good" games the more consoles sell. Plus there's an argument that if a potential customer, walking in to a shop undecided over a PS3 and a 360, would be swayed by what machine has the most games on the shelves.

The Wii isn't a very good example, as I think it's in a market all of it's own. The Wii may as well have Nintendo published titles only for the reasons you state - a sea of shovelware.

[elkatas]

Look at the Wii, it will get to a point where developers don't bothered releasing anything decent for it because they get lost in the sea of Neopets games and 3rd rate "training" games.

Poor argument, because nearly all Wii's best sellers are quality efforts. It is more than little absurd that people claim how only casual games sell on Wii, when TOP-10 of Wii, only two games are casual. And other game is selling only because of extra controller.

[elkatas]

Sony must be doing something right - or did something right, if you believe people are buying purely on brand name alone..

But Europe certainly doesn't float PS3 alone. Currently PS3 sales are below 7000 in Japan, and in USA, monthly sales are below 200 000. This is really bad.

I just hope Sony and MS keep pushing the technology, rather than go the Nintendo Wii route.

They should, because current model isn't sustainable at all. Here is profits for all three console manufacturers game divisions, starting from year 1998.

FY*       Sony**        Nintendo        Microsoft
1998    974,000,000    629,000,000
1999   1,130,000,000   645,000,000
2000    730,000,000    421,000,000
2001    -409,000,000   726,000,000
2002    623,000,000    800,000,000     -750,000,000
2003    939,000,000    560,000,000     -1,191,000,000
2004    650,000,000    316,000,000     -1,215,000,000
2005    404,000,000    777,000,000     -485,000,000
2006    75,000,00      894,000,000     -1,262,000,000
2007   -1,969,000,000  1,489,000,000   -1,892,000,000
2008   -965,000,000    2,480,000,000   532,000,000      
                  
Totals  2,182,000,000  9,737,000,000   -6,263,000,000

* -- it's fiscal year for both Microsoft and Nintendo
** -- it's FY+1 for Sony for comparison reasons

Nintendo's numbers are full year, MS and Sony are up to Q3.

As you can see, current model is pretty much impossible to sustain. So far, Sony has swiped all profits from PS2 era to the drainage, and fair chunk of PS1 profits. Xbox losses are even worse, and even if Xbox would start to do profit like PS2, console would be profitable around 2018 or so.

Thanks for the numbers go to NeoGaf user Bycha.

[EvilBoris]

The day of the single platform games are nearing an end, it's only really when Sony or MS lay down some cash or an internal Studio buys a game that we actually get one.

I think Sony still have that enormous brand power in europe which they had throughout the PS2 era, I know countless people that didn't even know that GTA4 was on the 360.

I think that even if there is a clear winner this genaration between Sony and MS, there are too many consoles of the other format for publishers to ignore the "loser" anyway.

[EvilBoris]

Nintendo still are and always have been the Kings of Profit, even the supposed flop of the Gamecube and N64 saw them smiling all the way to the bank.

[Matt]

Those numbers make for interesting reading. I'm assuming the MS figures don't include the $3b put aside for warranty extensions?

I think Sony knew going in with BR they would lose money on the PS3 for a while, but as I've said, the long term financial benefits of BR being the adopted HD format will be huge. Enough to offset the PS3 losses? I don't know. Of course Sony are about making money, but they've also always been a company that likes to push technology. Getting BR as the standard would have been a huge point of pride to them - after losing to VHS, and minidisc and UMD not taking off, they'd have wanted to be responsible for one standard consumer product.

Boris, I agree single platform games are for the most, a thing of the past. The trouble Sony have, is in making such a complex machine, the 360 multiplatform titles invariably look better.

[elkatas]

Those numbers make for interesting reading. I'm assuming the MS figures don't include the $3b put aside for warranty extensions?

Microsoft reserved 1 billion bucks for warranty extensions, and it is included in 2007 number. Microsoft is certainly doing far better with X360 than with Xbox, but still, so much money wasted for so little gain.

[Matt]

MS are in a nice position though - they just want the market share, **** the cost! They'd have done the math and they know what the end reward will be once HD streaming is really in place and viable. The console is just a way for them to get a box under a TV.

I did think it was $3b, not 1. I would love to know the real return numbers for the 360.

[EvilBoris]

Boris, I agree single platform games are for the most, a thing of the past. The trouble Sony have, is in making such a complex machine, the 360 multi platform titles invariably look better.

The complexity was just Sony being too clever for their own good and it hasn't really paid of yet and I doubt it will, other than the odd one that slips through Q&A some how like Orange box, the difference is very negligible anyway and they are getting close and closer anyway.

Unless like you say you sit the 2 games together and nit pick them it doesn't really make any odds to the majority of people.

[EvilBoris]

Poor argument, because nearly all Wii's best sellers are quality efforts. It is more than little absurd that people claim how only casual games sell on Wii, when TOP-10 of Wii, only two games are casual. And other game is selling only because of extra controller.

I think you've grossly misunderstood what I was saying.

I'm not saying that only casual games SELL on the Wii, I'm just saying there is a huge selection of games (most of which are utter dross) and if games like this keep come out then developers [WHO AREN'T NINTENDO] may see the Wii as a risky platform for releasing games because the market is saturated with titles, making your own low profile game difficult to stand out.
It's a shame as this was half the reason Nintendo kept hardware costs so low.
At the moment it doesn't have this problem as every developer under the sun is trying the Wii gamble and making a game for it but It doesn't take many games to flop before a dev studio has to close.

[Brad]

Nintendo Seal Of Quality - remember that? lol

Dev: "Hey Nintendo, we want to make Ar*e training. You shove the Wii mote up your backside and just kinda jump around, maybe jump on and off the balance board on version 2. You guys ok with that?"

Nintendo : "No problemo"

To be fair, there's dross on every platform and there always will be.