Nintendo's casual gamer focus.

[cutmymilk]

Worst E3 ever??

YESSSSS

[Ady]

Ady, Nintendo coming out AFTER the show, AFTER they've been getting a hard time online, and saying, "Hey it's only E3, it means nothing, there'll be proper games to show you soon" looks, to me, like a company back peddling.

Yes, but if you acknowledge there were:

...no real big new games on show from anyone.

Then why are you just singling out Nintendo?

[Matt]

Simple. MS and Sony showed traditional games for their "core" demographic, which Nintendo didn't.

Nintendo's big "core" game was Animal Crossing, which unless I'm mistaken, was already considered a pretty casual game in the first place.

Are you really saying that, as presumably a long term gamer, you felt happy with the games Nintendo highlighted?

[TIKKAROMA]

For me, "traditional" covers a wide range of genres. Possibly anything requiring a modicum of skill maybe? Platform, shooter, puzzle, racing, etc.

The kind of games that appeal to, well, "gamers". Basically the games that, up until this point in time, got you gaming in the first place.

They've taken an already "casual" game, GH, and dumbed it down to ridiculous levels.

Guitar Hero is "casual" ? No "modicum of skill" required to play it ?

Go find another thread mate - whatever credibility you have you're chipping away at it with these daft posts as you push yourself more & more to argue with people.

E3 is a media & business summit by the way - it's not a "make big shock announcements" show - it's why the public can't attend anymore.

[Matt]

Wondered how long it would be until you jumped in....

GH is casual in the sense it appeals to a casual audience. It's a good example in this discussion as it appeals to be both casual and traditional gamers. At it's basic level, anyone can play; at the higher levels it takes a lot of skill. This is probably the BEST example of a cross-over title appealing to both market sections.

And hasn't a huge part of my opinion been that Nintendo could appeal to BOTH these markets?

Nintendo have taken that kind of game to Wii Music, where evidently you shake a Wiimote around for 5 minutes to bring a smile to your face. Apparently there's no chance of "failing" in the game. Does that sound like something a lot of us would want to play?

Does that make it a "game"?

game

1.an amusement or pastime: children's games.
2.a competitive activity involving skill, chance, or endurance on the part of two or more persons who play according to a set of rules, usually for their own amusement or for that of spectators.

Two different definitions of games right there. So yes, Wii Music is a game in the literal sense. In the traditional sense, maybe not. I'd imagine all of us began gaming more for the second definition - though change the definition a little so the competitive activity can also be against the console itself.

BTW, have you ever seen an E3 presentation before? Because you apparently know nothing about it's history. E3 is where the big companies show the industry, including press and retailers, what they can expect in the coming year. It's where companies have built up excitement and expectation for their product. You get the press excited about a new game, they write glowing previews, you get lots of publicity. If you have the best show, this feeds your sales - more / better press coverage results in better public perception of your product which translates to sales.

Right now, the gaming press is questioning Nintendo. Just because some people here don't want to acknowledge it, that doesn't mean there is a feeling out there that Nintendo have dropped their core gamers. Even the non gaming press have written about it! This is the first news article I got by Googling "E3 Nintendo".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/connected/main.jhtml?xml=/connected/2008/07/18/dlgames118.xml

Elsewhere, Nintendo continue to incur the wrath of online gaming forums with their unrelenting focus on 'casual' games. Reggie Fils-Aime has come out and asked how core gamers could have felt left out, citing that Animal Crossing was what people wanted. True to a degree dear Reggie, but the day Animal Crossing is regarded as a 'hardcore' game is the day the traditionalists can pack up and go home. A years too late announcement of online communications "Wii Speak" didn't exactly inspire confidence either. It drifted along as expected for a while, Fils-Aime delighted in telling the world just how filthy rich Nintendo are with a selection of graphs in various shades of blue. There was a cursory glance at three (count 'em) Wii games, Call of Duty: World at War looking particularly explosive on the modest Wii hardware.

[Ady]

Simple. MS and Sony showed traditional games for their "core" demographic, which Nintendo didn't.

Nintendo's big "core" game was Animal Crossing, which unless I'm mistaken, was already considered a pretty casual game in the first place.

Are you really saying that, as presumably a long term gamer, you felt happy with the games Nintendo highlighted?

No, but I've long since cared about E3, and as previously stated, Nintendo said it'll be showing "proper" games elsewhere later on. That's why I'm not about to start screaming that the sky is falling.

[Matt]

Nintendo should have said "new games soon!" during the show itself, rather than afterwards.

I think my part of this discussion has ended. I've repeated myself way too much. We all have different perceptions of how the show went. I'm just thankful it wasn't Sony showing those games, can you imagine the backlash?

I'll look forward to Pikmin 3 and being able to borrow a Wii off someone to play it

[Sixty]

I'll say it again: E3 isn't what it used to be. We all know about its downsizing and different approach but no one seems to have accepted it. The problem isn't Nintendo, it's that us gamers haven't got used to this yet and still expect huge announcements like at the old E3. Miyamoto is right. Nintendo did largely the same thing in their conference last year. They spent ages on sales figures and charts, about two minutes on Galaxy and Brawl while they announced release dates, introduced Mario Kart, and then focused on Wii Fit for the rest of it. The 'hardcore' were just as ignored last year as they were this year. The only difference was peoples' expectations this time.

Maybe in a few years after many more E3s similar to 2008's gamers will start to understand and won't take much notice of the show any more. The mistake was keeping the 'E3' name, which suggests exciting things, when the dull stuff 'Media and Business Summit' brings to mind is really more appropriate.

[cutmymilk]

Mario Kart, Galaxy and Brawl was NOT ignoring the 'hardcore'!!

Just one game of that caliber would have spared the backlash that Nintendo have endured!

[Sixty]

Mario Kart was introduced as one of those dreaded 'games anyone can play', which significantly lessened its impact for me. Galaxy and Brawl were barely mentioned. They were only there to be given release dates (they had been announced the year before, in case that's what you're thinking). We're not even talking new trailers. There was, I believe, about 20 seconds of video playing in the background while Reggie talked over it.

I'm a huge Nintendo fan but I was disappointed by that conference. The 'hardcore' were most definitely not served well at last year's show, especially since so much of it was about Wii Fit.

[Ady]

Mario Kart, Galaxy and Brawl was NOT ignoring the 'hardcore'!!

Just one game of that caliber would have spared the backlash that Nintendo have endured!

Nah, they would've just found something else to whinge about...

[MikeRox]

Nah, they would've just found something else to whinge about...

QFT!

Tbh, since the conference, a few tidbits have slipped out, if they get a couple of "proper" games announced later this year, then all will be well again

[belmondo]

True, but I think SEGA deserve a lot of credit , with the Mega Drive they began to make gaming cool what thier their slick SEGA Cyber Razor , and SEGA TV ads , Sponsoring high profile sports like F1, or the Premiership , and having big name TV, Film, Sporting stars seen playing SEGA games wearing SEGA merchandise , facts with SEGA never ever seem to get credit for and it was SONY that made gaming cool .

...

And I take the point about RPG?s, but the system with the best line up of traditional RPG?s is now the 360 , so its line up isn?t just FPS or racers , not that?s a bad thing its self . All machines will have a genre that they?re strong in , that doesn?t mean that?s the only style of games their offer .SNK had a massive rep for 2D fighters , yet the Neo Geo also excelled at shooters , and it was pretty good it sports games too imo , It doesn?t get much better than Neo Turf , or Wind Jammers

The example of Sega promotion in the early 90s is a good one, it did indeed make gaming 'cooler' and more acceptable to the masses. Sony came along and expanded that over the next two hardware generations. This time round it's Nintendo's turn to expand the audience... and now suddenly it's a bad thing.

As for the 360, I'm not complaining about the line-up, just pointing out it bears little relation to console gaming as I see it. The popular games on that platform all have an American/PC heritage. The Wii is delivering more traditional console games then the other two platforms, I can't see Nintendo doing anything to harm that market.

[belmondo]

For me, "traditional" covers a wide range of genres...

The kind of games that appeal to, well, "gamers". Basically the games that, up until this point in time, got you gaming in the first place.

And for me, there is very little content on the 360 or PS3 that fits this description. There is more stuff on the Wii that appeals to me, and I'm not talking about Wii Fit et al, but proper, traditonal Japanese console games. This market is still being served by the Wii, regardless of how many dodgy waggle controlled games get released by Nintendo or third parties.

[Team Andromeda]

This time round it's Nintendo's turn to expand the audience... and now suddenly it's a bad thing.

I 'm mot saying its a bad thing at all, My problems is I think the tech of the Wii could be better and I don't think its got a great games line up . I don't mind NCL trying to broaden the market , but NCL don't have a history of puming out games each year , not like SONY In-House teams . SONY with the Eyetoy tried to get the causals and non gamers to join in the fun, yet that wasn't at the cost of the more Traditional games .

I just don't think NCL have the studo Structure to make the more traditional game , as well games to broaden the market .

And you know when NCL Announce sequels , its Yes brilliant ! I can't wait to play them , when SONY or MS announce sequels its ... YAWN gaming is dead to me , can't they make anything new

The Wii is delivering more traditional console games then the other two platforms

Seeing as the X-Box is a Western consoles and its number one market is the USA, I expect it have more games with a Western flavour , but its strong in other aera's too it is hands down the best system if Traditional Japanese RPG’s are your thing , and like the X-Box before it also strong in the racer dept , and that is be no means a PC aera As I remember back inthe days PC owners desprate for a PC racer that could compare to the likes of SEGA Rally , Ridge Racer ect . And I don't see whats so bad about having a PC or American heritage either .

The Mega Drive made its name with western sports tiltles and thats one of the best consoles ever made imo, Resident Evil copied the likes of AITD , not that I cared or bother when it was done so well and I could give a toss about any PC backround




The one aera it has problems in , is just like the X-Box , and thats a lack of Platform games to call its own , and tha to me is aera MS really needs to sort out