Sony - Kaboom - Financial Meltdown etc

[Brats]

Most of the people claiming that BD is the next Betamax/Minidisc/Laserdisc/<niche format here>, and claiming that people won't want to move to the new format because people are happy with the existing one, seem to be forgetting that the exact same arguments were used repeatedly as reasons why DVD Video would fail.

I don't remember this at all. Are there any old articles from yonder days of the internet that back this up?

My understanding is that pre-recorded VHS sales were pretty shocking. Our local Virgin scaled back on videos for more CDs and games in the mid-nineties. Anecdotally I know of a number of people who had upgraded to 32" widescreen CRTs and were appalled by the quality of pre-recorded VHS on a screen that size (which remember was worse than broadcast TV!).

As I said before, I have no idea where Blu-ray is going. Yes it's been selling more than DVD in its lifetime, but DVD sales were fairly flat and then went bananas around this time. If Blu Ray follows the same pattern in 2009, then I think it can be labelled a success.

Global economy is a bit of a ****ter for it though.

[nakamura]

Doesn't the idea of digital distribution bother anyone else? I for one like paying my money and getting a physical product at the end of it. Especially special editions etc.

[Brats]

I love renting films digitally, but I find the idea of buying anything and losing it if your copy gets wiped/corrupted slightly unnerving and completely unnecessary. It's why I don't buy any music from itunes, but I would if I could re-download stuff.

[Lyris]

Doesn't the idea of digital distribution bother anyone else? I for one like paying my money and getting a physical product at the end of it. Especially special editions etc.

Yes, I despise the idea of virtual movies. Buying a license instead of a film? And taking the enforced region locking, DRM crap etc. on top of it? Forget it - for me it's physical product or nothing.

Again, a lot of people are using the "Digital Downloads" line (why do they call them Digital Downloads? Are there analogue downloads? Do they look less crap?) because of the success of iTunes, but those people tend to ignore the fact that iTunes was a success largely because of the fact that people resented paying for an entire album to get a few tracks they wanted, and it let them pick and choose.

People also love to collect and trade DVDs (and eventually BDs) with friends, and give them as gifts. Try doing that with a virtual product. Imagine unwrapping serial codes granting you permission to download a movie file on Christmas Day!

[Ady]

Doesn't the idea of digital distribution bother anyone else? I for one like paying my money and getting a physical product at the end of it. Especially special editions etc.

I'm the same. It's like those articles that crop up every now and then claiming that the next console generation will be all about digital distribution, or people who say the same about music and the "death of the album".

Personally, I'll always prefer having a physical product over a download. Even now, I feel loathed to pay for mp3 versions of albums and will always opt for the CD if given the choice.

I can appreciate how such delivery methods can be convenient, but I don't see how or why they should have to replace physical media. I think people will always prefer a tangible product.

Do they look less crap?) because of the success of iTunes, but those people tend to ignore the fact that iTunes was a success largely because of the fact that people resented paying for an entire album to get a few tracks they wanted, and it let them pick and choose.

Which leads me to another pet hate of mine. People like this annoy me and can go jump, tbh.

If they don't have the patience to buy and album and LISTEN to it properly, then they obviously have a little appreciation of music in general, let alone the band/artist they support. If they only like songs from an album once they become singles and everyone else likes them, then it's their loss and shows them for the mindless sheep they are. They can have their iTunes and cherry pick singles all they want, but don't expect me to follow suit any time soon.

[JP]

I still don't buy this whole physical HD media (BD or not) isn't going to catch on. The studios who supply the films seem fairly convinced it will when you realise just how much money they are investing in BD at the moment.

There's a place for downloads as well as physical media and that includes DVD & BD, it really doesn't need to be just one or the other and I'm not sure why people only think that one format can be successful at a time.

I'm certainly not suggesting that downloads won't eventually take over physical media eventually but until it's an instant view film at the same audio & video quality of blu-ray then the is no reason for people to not want blu-ray.

Like Lyris, I've always liked to actually have the media rather than borrowing a poor quality download of it and given the choice between the two I'd always buy the disc.

People seem to think for some reason that downloads will be cheaper and far more portable than physical media but before studios accept this sort of thing as their main distribution method there will be far more control over the media itself and quite possibly the device that people are playing these on.

There's definately a place for downloads though and that place is for people who perhaps aren't as interested in the quality of what they are listening to or watching. We don't have to exclude one for the other to be successful, I like blu-ray as it takes me far closer, when done well, to the director's vision of the film they were creating and for me that's very important. It isn't for everybody but it doesn't need to be for everybody to be valid.

[nakamura]

Which leads me to another pet hate of mine. People like this annoy me and can go jump, tbh.

If they don't have the patience to buy and album and LISTEN to it properly, then they obviously have a little appreciation of music in general, let alone the band/artist they support. If they only like songs from an album once they become singles and everyone else likes them, then it's their loss and shows them for the mindless sheep they are. They can have their iTunes and cherry pick singles all they want, but don't expect me to follow suit any time soon.

[Neon Ignition]

The day online downloads eradicate the hard format will be a dark day, not that I think it'll ever happen. It's like with the music industry, downloads (illegally or legally) is now a massive part of the industry but CD's still stick around. No matter how high quality or instant the downloads get, people love a hard copy and due to piracy risks studio's will always want to restrict people's ability to burn their own copies which necessitates the existance of formats such as Blu-Ray and DVD. The same goes for games and I for one much prefer the disc based route.

[Brats]

The only issue I have with physical media is the space they take up. I have a room where all the walls are covered top to bottom with the things.

[Darwock]

The day online downloads eradicate the hard format will be a dark day

I used to think that way, but recently I noticed that I have basically made the switch already without realising. PSN etc.. I would have been dead against that a couple of years back but now I don't care, it's easier for me not having shelf loads of discs and stuff.

[Ady]

The only issue I have with physical media is the space they take up. I have a room where all the walls are covered top to bottom with the things.

Me too, but I'd take that over DRM any day!

And besides, downloads are going to fill up your HDD eventually, so space is getting taken up either way, be it virtual or physical.

[Strolls]

Digital downloads: we need one or two big digital distribution companies to go bust, teaching consumers the lesson that they don't really own anything when they "buy" from iTunes or whereever. We've already seen it with the Yahoo and Walmart music stores, but they managed to get away with it by telling consumers "burn it to CD & then reimport your music".

"Digitally distributed" videos don't offer the same "burn to CD" option that MP3 stores have always had, so people "buying" movies that way will be truly stuffed (without this "analogue loophole") should the online distributor go bust or simply close its doors. Unfortunately, I can't see so many people being affected in the way that some users of iTunes - who have bought 1000s of songs - would be. Music collections just tend to be bigger.

There have been a couple of letters & articles in my local newspaper in recent weeks, housewives complaining that the Woolworths & Zavvi vouchers they bought for their kids' Christmas are now worthless. When DRM hits them like this then maybe they'll reconsider who they trust with their money - companies choose a limited liability status ("ltd" after the company name) simply so they can get away with **** like this.

Considering the number of people on this forum who own big collections of classic NES & Dreamcast games they still enjoy playing, I think there there's some here who should be ashamed of spending money on Xbox Arcade, Steam & the PSN. This thread started with some suggestions that Sony might close their Playstation division - I think that's pretty unlikely, myself, but what do you think would happen to your LuminesHD and sackboy horse-armour if they did?

If you "buy" a game or a movie by digital distribution it is inevitable that you'll eventually loose access to it. Why do you waste your money, when there are plenty of games and movies that you can buy on disk and own for life?

It will be a long time before Microsoft start ending support for games bought from Arcade, but the backlash for that one will be massive. "Braid is a brilliant game - now I'll never be able to play it again. Or do Microsoft plan to release it soon for the Xbox 2021, and expect me to pay twice for it?". There are lots of other games that have only been distributed that way, and there will come a time when they're lost to the people who have paid for them. Suddenly, lots of gamers will start reconsidering how they've been spending their money. If Steam were to go bust tomorrow it would be quite a wake up call to the masses.

Albums: whilst I agree it's very true that some albums you should listen to all the way through, and that if you buy a single track you're missing out on part of the experience the artist intended, it's also true that there are many musicians who don't have that level of talent.

There are some artists who have released one or two great tracks, but simply don't have what it takes to make a whole album of that quality. I think that for a lot of "pop" music, the album format is simply inappropriate - it's just a great song and you shouldn't try to make it more than that.

So in the past consumers have had the choice of a ?4 single (for a limited time only), or a album for ?10 (or ?12, or I'm sure I've even seen new releases at ?17 in the High Street in the past). That's not a reasonable pricing schedule, and the record companies had it coming to them - it was obvious that consumers would leap when iTunes offered them the ?1 alternative.

For the likes of me, I'm glad to say I can pick up albums second-hand for a quid or two at car-boot sales (I used to haunt Reckless Records in London, where I'd pay more like a fiver) and still own these songs from great where-are-they-now musicians for a reasonable price. Games companies now like to claim that the doctrine of first sale is "killing the industry", but the resale value of CDs and games and DVDs factors into the price that people are willing to pay for them, so the games publishers need to STFU right now, before I come looking for them.

[Lyris]

Considering the number of people on this forum who own big collections of classic NES & Dreamcast games they still enjoy playing

Yes, well, apart from Phantasy Star Online, because it was deemed financially unviable to keep the servers running.

*HINT TO SUPPORTERS OF DRM BASED DOWNLOAD SERVICES*

[Brats]

It will be a long time before Microsoft start ending support for games bought from Arcade, but the backlash for that one will be massive. "Braid is a brilliant game - now I'll never be able to play it again. Or do Microsoft plan to release it soon for the Xbox 2021, and expect me to pay twice for it?". There are lots of other games that have only been distributed that way, and there will come a time when they're lost to the people who have paid for them. Suddenly, lots of gamers will start reconsidering how they've been spending their money. If Steam were to go bust tomorrow it would be quite a wake up call to the masses.

If downloads didn't exist, would games like Braid even exist? How else would a single person cost effectively distribute a game like Braid?

[Darwock]

Strolls, you're off the mark there. Games bought by DD can still be played as long as they still exist on the console.. if Sony shut up shop tomorrow I could still play Lumines because it'on my PS3 and I don't need to be online to play it.

Of course, you're right if you're talking about the broader move into online gaming... and I always was against that for the exact reason you mention. You are at the mercy of the people who run the servers or provide the content. But that's nothing to do with digital distribution over physical media. Funny you mention the Dreamcast as if it was innocent of this, because in fact the first time I ever had such a problem was with Samba de Amigo's unlockable content on the DC.