neXtBox Speculation!

[Family Fry]

Dont forget that Natal is MS big push to bridge the gap between new hardware, the chances are if Natal takes off that most likely will bundle or be itergrated into the new xbox, Xbox 1080.
Same goes with the Sony Wand, new way to play can always lead to new types of games being designed for it and if successful bundle with new console or redesign for new console.
Next few years should be interesting, I expect E3 for MS to be Natal pre-launch to the max with the games that use it all shown, from Sony the Wand pre-launch to the max also with games, Nintendo though always hard to predict just look at the DSi XL, I thougt DSi would have been the solid final design for few years and that announcement came out of nowhere.
Wii HD would be nice but they really dont seem interested or are giving away any details, think they are quite happy to make money on every piece of hardware sold generally, maybe once they slow they will announce WII or Wii HD.

[EvilBoris]

XBox LOL - quality!

To date, efficient code from one gen hasn't really translated over to the next gen due to many factors.

On one hand, devs never really pushed the original XB as it was dropped far too soon. With the shared PC tools on it, I don't think many got to the "metal" to really give it a push. It was such a jump over the PS2 that they didn't need to either.

PS2 on the other hand, devs really go into that, but of course the hardware in the PS3 was completely different.

Next gen as you say though, things may be different. If Sony stick to the Cell, devs can probably get an improved engine from PS3->PS4 up and running in very little time - it would certainly make sense for Sony to continue with the Cell to recoup the original development costs, and allow devs to get to grips with it much faster. Plus you get a 3x upgrade to the Cell processor power, better bandwidth and a decent GPU and you've got insane power (imagine if the Cell was used purely for gamecode and the GPU was powerful enough to do top graphics, we'd have some great physics based titles for example).

There's also the point that we're only on mult-CPUs now. Devs are learning how to utilise these so we hopefully won't hear as much moaning next gen

As an aside, with the PS3 now selling well and graphically going places the 360 hasn't [yet], will MS start to encourage first and second party devs to push harder?

I can see what you are saying but surely some of the technical innovations and techniques used to make of this gen are a result of the technical constraints and limitations of the previous generation?

If ID games really get rage running on current hardware looking as impressive as it does at 60fps then the leap to next gen hardware will make pulling of those kinds of visual feats a piece of cake to any developer bright enough to use similar techniques.
I don't know exactly how much is shared around the dev community but there has to be more to how our games look than pure processing power, I bet if I had a time machine and gave a games developer a modern PC with 20x the grunt of theirs that they still wouldn't make anything that looks like it does now.

[Matt]

Yeah, Sony and MS want a share of the lucrative casual market with their controllers. I think Natal is hard to call - it'll either revolutionise and capture the world's imagination and many will never go back, or it'll do well like the Wii before sales significantly drop off. Can't see something so cool looking doing nothing!

I honestly don't get the Natal though, unless it's bundled with a console / integrated. The Wii, in part, suits Casuals because it works out of the box, it's simply to setup. You can't get people to buy 2 packages at retail, and will existing 360 owners (a pretty hardcore group) really be interested in the Natal [those not with kids]?

I can't believe MS aren't thinking about releasing a new console for it, or at least a heavily modified 360 - backwards compatible with the huge software library, Natal built in. It would have to be reliable though, Joe Consumer wouldn't tolerate the early failure rates.

Despite everyone wanting a chunk of Casual Market, the Wii drop-off is an indication of the tenuous nature of that market and how it may not be a long term proposition, particularly if all the complaints of low sales from Wii software devs are true. They'll want to find a balance the two markets, keeping a realistic price point from Day One while giving the hardcore the tech advancement we expect.

[abigsmurf]

I think this generation has been a slow burner. It's only been this year when there have been lots of strong titles throughout the year for both ps3 and 360.

We're finally starting to see really great software and the Japanese devs are starting to ramp up their production of RPGs. AT3, DQX, Persona 5, FFXIII are all going to hit Japan within a year and all but DQX will probably hit the west by 2011.

The end of the PS2's lifespan has seen some brilliant games, Persona 4, KH2, AT2. I'm expecting similar things to happen with this gen.

As of yet, there's not a need for the PS4/neXtbox because I don't believe developers for the most part have caught up with the tech.

I do however think the DS is in need of a real update. Graphics are maxed out and not going to improve and the library of quality games is incredibly large (which hurts newer titles) I'd be surprised if this time next year, we don't have the DS2 in our hands.

[MikeRox]

I do however think the DS is in need of a real update. Graphics are maxed out and not going to improve and the library of quality games is incredibly large (which hurts newer titles) I'd be surprised if this time next year, we don't have the DS2 in our hands.

It actually got one in the DSi. (the capabilities were upped, however that has split the userbase so I don't know other than DSiware games, what is going to bother using that extra grunt?)

As for next gen stuff. I'm quite happy with what we have now. I'd rather we had a "maxed out" gen for a bit as if the graphical ceiling is neared, it means the gameplay itself will become more important (I hope) and games will have to get creative in differentiating themselves from the competition rather than just going OMG mega graffix!!!11

[abigsmurf]

The DSi isn't going to get its full grunt used except in DSiWare. It's looking very likely that Nintendo are limiting access to the enhanced CPU and ram to people who are using the camera. I also suspect it the spec bump doesn't remove the low polygon limit.

I would agree that having a maxed out console for a while is good but the DS has arguably been maxed out for a couple of years now and it was outdated even back then. It's got to the stage where developers can't really do anything more and it's hurting the scope of the titles on the system.

[Matt]

I can see what you are saying but surely some of the technical innovations and techniques used to make of this gen are a result of the technical constraints and limitations of the previous generation?

I've not worked as a dev for years, do I'm not the best person to ask. At a guess, I'd say the anything learned on the PS2 wouldn't be much use on the PS3; on the 360, the first gen titles seemed to be upgrades from the XB using a single core, which would probably be a pretty easy conversion to do with the SDK.

Where I'm talking about the programming side of things (remembering that the algorithms devs use have been around for many years, even if the implementation was not previously possible due to processing power), something that is always improving from gen to gen is the artistic side of things, and those skills would translate well. Also, whereas a new gen would probably mean creation of new toolsets, they'd be iterations based on past work with improved creation optimisation, so yes what they've learned previously would be very beneficial there.

If ID games really get rage running on current hardware looking as impressive as it does at 60fps then the leap to next gen hardware will make pulling of those kinds of visual feats a piece of cake to any developer bright enough to use similar techniques.
I don't know exactly how much is shared around the dev community but there has to be more to how our games look than pure processing power, I bet if I had a time machine and gave a games developer a modern PC with 20x the grunt of theirs that they still wouldn't make anything that looks like it does now.

Do you mean if a dev suddenly, today, had a PC 20x more powerful? Well, you'd be able to turn on everything in Crysis and have a decent framerate

Certainly asset creation is increasingly important. But with more processor power you can do things current gen only dreams of. Whereas now we're happy with semi-destructable scenery, which crumbles in set chunks, imagine what the same game would be like if created out of voxels, for example.

The recent CryEngine 3 video showed the next-gen PC shots mixed in with the 360/ps3 footage. I know one or two said it was diminishing returns, but to me, the difference was day and night. They're getting towards a more solid world, with contact shadows, no aliasing, atmospheric effects etc. Lighting is still a big issue, once we have true global illumination that looks as good as pre-baked, then we'll be talking

Of course, the increased power allows better assets, and artistic uniformity is something devs are learning and getting at all the time.

I'm sceptical about Rage, purely because they're not targeting a single platform. 60fps sounds fantastic (you know I appreciate that!) and mega-texture is brilliant. I can't see it graphically matching say KZ2 because it's not single platform. We'll see how it holds up It's got some nice lighting in it (pre-baked).

[Matt]

As for next gen stuff. I'm quite happy with what we have now. I'd rather we had a "maxed out" gen for a bit as if the graphical ceiling is neared, it means the gameplay itself will become more important (I hope) and games will have to get creative in differentiating themselves from the competition rather than just going OMG mega graffix!!!11

Actually I think that is incorrect. What we'll get is a few devs with fantastic engines and resources, with their games looking much better than everyone else who hasn't the time / money / talent to throw at it. So we'll still get some top tiered graphical showcases that will steal the headlines for their technical achievements, and other second level titles. We got that on the PS2, with several astonishing graphical titles that everyone remembers (GOW etc), mixed in with a hundred run of the mill titles. People soon forget the crap.

It's a frequent misconcenption among the "gameplay > graphics" proclaiming crowd that graphics have nothing to do with gameplay, when in reality graphics enhance the experience immeasurably. If you had the choice of FIFA 10 on 360 or PS2, we all know what version we'd get - same game on all platforms, we'd get the one that looked better

Improved graphics = more coherent / solid / believable game worlds = enhanced immersion = a better game

[MyNameIsBruce]

Graphics whore :P

I do agree of course if you own more than one machine when you buy multiformat you do usually go for the one it looks best on surely? I do...

[Matt]

Absolutely. Nothing wrong with good graphics

[Salsa Party Animal]

If I were microsoft I would build it

XBOX 360 - with better build quality and that support 1080P 60fps as standard and got enough muscle and memory, support blu ray, wireless, support old peripherals from xbox 360, no region coding nonsense which stop us importing japanese games, and smaller than XBOX 360 and Natal build into XBOX 1080

That will suit me fine.

[mugetsu]

i think that with the power of these consoles bar the wii there was absolutely no reason for all games AT LEAST to be a minimum of 720p 60fps.
Graphics surely cant get all that better..........in the nextbox i'd expect 720/1080p 60fps all games with some sort of advanced physics engine.

[EvilBoris]

I can't see 60FPS ever becoming standard if developers are given the choice they will always choose over things over the framrate.

[Matt]

Yeah I'm afraid that's the case. Right now, with a semi decent GPU a PC can run all engines (except CE2 of course) 60fps at 1080p, no worries. By next gen, we'll hit 1080p as standard, but they'll be adding more effects so 60fps may not be standard. The gen after that though....

[MikeRox]

i think that with the power of these consoles bar the wii there was absolutely no reason for all games AT LEAST to be a minimum of 720p 60fps.
Graphics surely cant get all that better..........in the nextbox i'd expect 720/1080p 60fps all games with some sort of advanced physics engine.

Sadly even Insomniac (one of the few devs making 60fps HD games) have said that Crack in Time will probably be their last 60fps title to allow them to improve the visuals