I REALLY hate Microsoft's marketing people

[Burai]

The XBL network was apparently $2Bn (though this seems hard to believe) and they must still be losing shedloads on the hardware.

They've set aside $3bn to promote it. This was from their original advertising budget anyway, so I don't believe they "lose" anything as it were.

Xbox Live is designed as a way to get back the money lost on the console. I mean, what exactly do you get for your ?40 a year? A username and... Nothing. It's so blatently designed to subsidise the console... Shame less than 10% of Xbox owners fell for it.

[Mr Spew]

It's worked. Everybody knows what XBox is. It's not Playstation in terms of brand power, but I think it will definitely get more marketshare next gen if Sony doesn't get as big a head start as they got this time. If they just keep shoving it down people's throats, they'll continue to chip away at Sony's audience. MS has sunk so much into this venture that they'd be crazy to be cautious now.

It hasn't worked. If it had worked PS2 sales would be dropping as people "see the light" and buy an Xbox instead.

This just hasn't happened.

Hasn't worked? It's constantly working. More people are buying the Xbox as an alternative to the PS2 everyday. They're not going to completely overturn the PS2 market like you seem to be suggesting they have to. But even today, I managed to sway one guy to trade in his PS2 and games for an Xbox and loads of FPSs (the type of games he loves), and is even considering giving up his PC. Heh.

But, people are buying two consoles nowadays, it just didn't really happen a fair few years ago because of the cost, but now it's viable and a wise decision to make. So I don't see why sales would drop in that respect, but I guess I'm just trying to cover that area.

It hasn't been as much of a struggle as it was for me trying to persuade people to buy the Dreamcast (converted 3 friends ), I know people who I didn't even think were into games, going out and buying Xboxes. Which is nice.

[Mr Spew]

The XBL network was apparently $2Bn (though this seems hard to believe) and they must still be losing shedloads on the hardware.

They've set aside $3bn to promote it. This was from their original advertising budget anyway, so I don't believe they "lose" anything as it were.

Xbox Live is designed as a way to get back the money lost on the console. I mean, what exactly do you get for your ?40 a year? A username and... Nothing. It's so blatently designed to subsidise the console... Shame less than 10% of Xbox owners fell for it.

Surely it's for the headset, and the upkeep of the servers (so you don't end up paying for each game, unlike PSO, tut tut)?

As it does require people to be paid to maintain them, and open up new ones for the new games that are coming out. Especially for Halo 2, which I imagine will be quite big.

[JRMacumber]

I wonder how many people are going to fall for Sony's online stategy?

[Burai]

Hasn't worked? It's constantly working. More people are buying the Xbox as an alternative to the PS2 everyday.

So why haven't PS2 sales dropped?

That's the critical thing. If people were being swayed PS2 sales would drop. PS2 sales are higher now than they were before Xbox was released. What does that tell you about consumer opinion?

But, people are buying two consoles nowadays, it just didn't really happen a fair few years ago because of the cost, but now it's viable and a wise decision to make. So I don't see why sales would drop in that respect, but I guess I'm just trying to cover that area.

But you haven't really explained it at all have you? With the rate PS2 sales are rising, that would suggest that people are buying PS2's to go along with their PS2's...

Surely it's for the headset, and the upkeep of the servers (so you don't end up paying for each game, unlike PSO, tut tut)?

No. The headset is extra (?20 from November). The only servers that exist are the ones that store the usernames and bridge the connections. There are no dedicated gaming servers apart from PSO which, surprise surprise, costs extra.

[Burai]

I wonder how many people are going to fall for Sony's online stategy?

You'll have to divulge exactly what you're getting at man.

Can't be having this thread derailed by one-lining trolls now.

[Mr Spew]

Hasn't worked? It's constantly working. More people are buying the Xbox as an alternative to the PS2 everyday.

So why haven't PS2 sales dropped?

That's the critical thing. If people were being swayed PS2 sales would drop. PS2 sales are higher now than they were before Xbox was released. What does that tell you about consumer opinion?

But, people are buying two consoles nowadays, it just didn't really happen a fair few years ago because of the cost, but now it's viable and a wise decision to make. So I don't see why sales would drop in that respect, but I guess I'm just trying to cover that area.

But you haven't really explained it at all have you? With the rate PS2 sales are rising, that would suggest that people are buying PS2's to go along with their PS2's...

Surely it's for the headset, and the upkeep of the servers (so you don't end up paying for each game, unlike PSO, tut tut)?

No. The headset is extra (?20 from November). The only servers that exist are the ones that store the usernames and bridge the connections. There are no dedicated gaming servers apart from PSO which, surprise surprise, costs extra.

The sales haven't dropped because there are people who haven't bought a games console before, or who are only just "upgrading" to a next-gen console.

But then again, Xbox sales have been increasing recently too, so there will be a mix of people who have been swayed from their PS2s (which they will have already bought, adding to the tally), and people "upgrading".

With their PS2s? Err, no, see above.

The headset isn't available on it's own now. The price for LIVE for 12 months and the headset is ?40. That includes the headset. You can't buy the 12 month subscription on it's own yet - as it's going to be cheaper than the original pack, which Microsoft have already stated.

[Burai]

The sales haven't dropped because there are people who haven't bought a games console before, or who are only just "upgrading" to a next-gen console.

But then again, Xbox sales have been increasing recently too, so there will be a mix of people who have been swayed from their PS2s (which they will have already bought, adding to the tally), and people "upgrading".

But if the Xbox push was working, surely the majority of new machines being sold would be Xboxes?

Or it might be at least level? Or close to that.

But it's not. The PS2 is continuing to outsell Xbox 10 machines to 1 every week.

The headset isn't available on it's own now. The price for LIVE for 12 months and the headset is ?40. That includes the headset. You can't buy the 12 month subscription on it's own yet - as it's going to be cheaper than the original pack, which Microsoft have already stated.

Microsoft have stated the following:

Xbox Starter Kit (includes headset, full copy of MechAssault + 1 years sub) - ?60
1 years subscription: ?40
1 months subscription: ?5
Replacement headset: ?20

And how much do you reckon that the headset costs to make? Whatever they charge you, it's all profit as the headset costs pennies and there are no gaming servers.

[Mr Spew]

The sales haven't dropped because there are people who haven't bought a games console before, or who are only just "upgrading" to a next-gen console.

But then again, Xbox sales have been increasing recently too, so there will be a mix of people who have been swayed from their PS2s (which they will have already bought, adding to the tally), and people "upgrading".

But if the Xbox push was working, surely the majority of new machines being sold would be Xboxes?

Or it might be at least level? Or close to that.

But it's not. The PS2 is continuing to outsell Xbox 10 machines to 1 every week.

The headset isn't available on it's own now. The price for LIVE for 12 months and the headset is ?40. That includes the headset. You can't buy the 12 month subscription on it's own yet - as it's going to be cheaper than the original pack, which Microsoft have already stated.

Microsoft have stated the following:

Xbox Starter Kit (includes headset, full copy of MechAssault + 1 years sub) - ?60
1 years subscription: ?40
1 months subscription: ?5
Replacement headset: ?20

And how much do you reckon that the headset costs to make? Whatever they charge you, it's all profit as the headset costs pennies and there are no gaming servers.

Are you not listening? I said that people are being swayed, I don't mean in their millions, but there are quite a few. But, there are people buying their first machine, and choose the PS2. I'm talking about a small percentage here that are going to the Xbox (who have already bought PS2s, and some have been persuaded before they've bought PS2s too), not a massive rush. So the sales won't be that high.

I'm not debating about which is selling more than the other, or by how much.

The started kit isn't that much, it's ?39.99 brand new with no discounts, for the headset, MechAssault, MotoGP and Whacked! demos, and 12 month subscription:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000089Q4N/ref=sr_aps_videogames_1_1/026-2039033-3448468

So stop making up these prices just to fuel your argument.

How much do you think games cost to make? Exactly.

Same goes with everything on this planet. Go figure.

[Leynos]

I'm surprised people can still be arsed to actually ship them them out to the asian countries, as it seems to be just one big waste of time and money at the moment.

The Asian Xboxes are made in China now AFAIK.

This all sounds like irrational hatred btw. Yeah, the Xbox will probably never turn a profit, and exists only to give Microsoft a foothold in the industry. But who cares when the games are as good as they are? To actually wish for the Xbox's downfall is just plain blinkered.

Later.

[yashiro]

This all sounds like irrational hatred btw. Yeah, the Xbox will probably never turn a profit, and exists only to give Microsoft a foothold in the industry. But who cares when the games are as good as they are? To actually wish for the Xbox's downfall is just plain blinkered.

Later.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[JRMacumber]

I wonder how many people are going to fall for Sony's online stategy?

You'll have to divulge exactly what you're getting at man.

Can't be having this thread derailed by one-lining trolls now.

Burai, why don't you love me anymore? I think that's the real question we should be asking here. Love, man, where is it?

[Burai]

Are you not listening? I said that people are being swayed, I don't mean in their millions, but there are quite a few. But, there are people buying their first machine, and choose the PS2. I'm talking about a small percentage here that are going to the Xbox (who have already bought PS2s, and some have been persuaded before they've bought PS2s too), not a massive rush. So the sales won't be that high.

I'm not debating about which is selling more than the other, or by how much.

Well that's a shame really isn't it, because which is selling more is probably the whole point of this entire debate, right? I'd always thought it was when I started it and you'd think I'd know...

The started kit isn't that much, it's ?39.99 brand new with no discounts, for the headset, MechAssault, MotoGP and Whacked! demos, and 12 month subscription:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000089Q4N/ref=sr_aps_videogames_1_1/026-2039033-3448468

So stop making up these prices just to fuel your argument.

I'm not making up prices. Those will be the prices next month when they relaunch the service. Either way ?40 for the kit is still a rip-off, simply because you get hardly anything for your money.

How much do you think games cost to make? Exactly.

Same goes with everything on this planet. Go figure.

That doesn't actually make any sense.

Burai, why don't you love me anymore? I think that's the real question we should be asking here. Love, man, where is it?

Mate, if you've nothing to add to this thread, take my advice in the original post and stay out of it.

[Leynos]

Sorry, couldn't resist.

You honestly believe that the Xbox is devoid of good games? Or is it just the case that none of the games are to your particular tastes?

Later.

[Mr Spew]

How much do you think games cost to make? Exactly.

Same goes with everything on this planet. Go figure.

That was in response to your comment on how the headsets are a rip-off at ?20. Games cost less than a pound to make, but they're sold on for a load more.

Those prices aren't in effect now, so it bears no relevance. Any link to this pricing structure?

Oh yeah, and there are still tonnes of the kits yet to be sold. So I doubt they'll be going up anytime soon.

Hardly anything? Surely they have to have servers to run off in the first place, or else it just wouldn't work?