Weekend games: It's time games said something more

[LeatherRaven]

I agree it is a bad strapline for the article, and as I don?t often look at my work after it?s published I?ve only just seen it. I can totally accept that you are passionate about games otaku86, I?m passionate about games as well.

I dont like overemphasis on narrative, as much as I love a good story in a game.
I dunno, what I want to say is difficult to put into words, but I have this strong gut feeling, that tells me to not like things, the way they are right now.

Sorry... now you love a good story in a game? Weren?t you the same person that was berating them a few posts back? So you don?t like things the way they are now, but you don?t want them to change? Do you realise how much you contradict yourself in your own posts?

There isn?t enough emphasis put on good narrative now that?s the problem, and that?s what I personally think needs to be addressed, like many other things in the games industry and with that hopefully we?ll get a few deeper subtleties (for those that want them of course).

Like I said, there will always be games aimed at the hardcore gamers, but although the hardcore gamers are the evangelists of gaming they are the minority and it?s the larger ?casual? gaming audience that the industry wants to make the most of. So you don?t need narrative or any deeper meaning in your entertainment, that?s fine, but there are many people as demonstrated on this thread, who enjoy something more cerebral and there?s no reason why their tastes shouldn?t be catered for too. If anything better narrative and deeper complexities will stop games becoming the mediocre pap that we are all against.

I agree with you otaku86 that the best days of gaming are probably behind us, but that doesn?t mean that they are lost forever, or that there is nothing that can be learned from them. Much of this has to do with the simple mechanics and budget involved with games development these days, the bedroom coder (apart from mods) is rapidly dying out and thus developers are becoming more under the thumb of publishers. Whether you like it or not things are changing and we can only hope that while this may produce low-grade cash-ins it will help bump up the industry as a whole and allow developers to create innovative and fun stuff. Believe me that what they really want to do.

You mentioned you want to get into the games industry, in what capacity?

[Ady]

This thread has gotten very interesting.

Otaku84, whilst I agree with your concerns of Hollywood and gaming becoming bedfellows, I disagree with your either/or stance on the expansion of the gaming pallette (ie deepr/more sophisticated plots). Surely it depends on the game?

The whole 'hidden meaning' thing to me (as someone poitned out) is something one can take or leave at will, but as Otaku parodied in his Monkey Ball post, it can get out of hand (though this largely depends on how stoned the person theorising is... ).

I personally think gaming has more with the music industry than Hollywood, though and similarly, gaming itself more in common with music that cinema (though as a musician, I'm probably biased).

Like music, gaming has many 'styles' or 'genres', and like music, the introduction of new techniques, instruments and production values has evolved what can be done with music itself. As such, you get some people who embrace new processes of music production and some who feel threatened by them (eg the Musicians Union who wanted drum machines banned, foolishly fearing they'd make live drumming obsolete).

The key, then is realising that the old can co-exisst with the new and their rewspective applications should depend upon what the artist is trying to do. The same applies with gaming.

[Alf-Life]

Jason Jones said it best when he said storylines in games (at least, at present) are there to provide context for the player "...so that the player believes they're in the back of this jeep on this ringworld called Halo".

Should they advance further as was argued?
Probably. I can see no harm in it... I think the main point regarding Otaku84's fierce defiance of games ever getting late-night roundtable discussion shows on BBC2 is misguided; if you don't like it, don't play it. Or, take these games that invariably will contain deeper meanings at face value, like you say you do with films now.
Your spoof dissection of Monkeyball was amusing, but I think you're fearing gaming becoming something that it won't. The same way you laugh at people finding inconceivable hidden meanings in film (Stephen Fry on Room101 cited an example of film critics analysing the way one movie went from colour film to black and white half way through, when all that really happened was the film ran out of money/film) is the same way most people find that. And it's the same way people will feel about games that are dissected to such a ridiculous degree.

To finish off, like others here, I enjoy dissecting films and meanings - a film like Starship Troopers can really give out a strong message and wrap it up in a massmarket B-movie style such as the ones you (Otaku84) say you like, and thus make the film deeper, more rewarding and rewatchable.

[Darwock]

This whole thread is stupid, regardless of the writers credentials they are turning a blind eye to the many, many games which have serious points to make.

[PeteJ]

This whole thread is stupid, regardless of the writers credentials they are turning a blind eye to the many, many games which have serious points to make.

I'm not sure I completely follow. It has already been discussed that certain games do have impressive and deep stories (such as the Silent Hill series), however not enough games go fair enough.

I do agree that many games have serious points to make. Take Beyond Good & Evil for example, the story could have been interesting and uncovering a conspircy is always good fun, however this story was poorly written (or more to the point, cut unfortunately short) resulting in an obvious plot from the outset without any surprises. There is a website somewhere that goes into quite a bit of depth about BG&E ranting about how weak the story was, I don't have the link though.
Thankfully the game itself is quite strong, though it could have been a classic if only it wasn't released in such a cut down form.