Are we no longer playing the games ourselves?

[JSR]

I thought long and hard about what to call this thread, and am not completely satisfied by what I chose. I couldn't come up with a small sentence to explain what I want to say in this thread.

When games first came, they were simple in both in technique and gameplay (see: Pong). This was simply a natural start for a medium that was at the time unknown. Just as naturally games started to get broader in their scope. This didn't happen as a result of better technology, but rather because of peoples increased experience with games, and bigger ambitions. Soon one could traverse a digital world with a character who could interact with many of the things around it. People loved to explore the wast land of Hyrule in Zelda on the NES. They spent hours cutting bushes to find rupees or other items beneath them. Just as much time was spent figuring out where to go next, and how to get there. The game didn't tell the player where the next temple was, or how to use the bloody raft. Even so, people still figured both of these out, simply by exploring the game. And the satisfaction of discovering this was immense.

With that out of the way, I can raise my complaint: Games today are no fun! I do of course play as much of Uncharted and Call of Duty as the next guy, but not without a sense of longing. I miss playing games that didn't hold your hand all the time through. Games that don't have a visual marker in front of your nose telling where to go. Games that don't consist of long corridors with no where else to go but forward. I miss games where you actually have to explore.

If anyone of you played Black Ops (which you all did, according to the sales numbers), you probably know what I mean. That game constantly shouts objectives at you and always has a cursor telling you where to go. Not that you could go anywhere else. Every path besides the right one is closed off by trees, cars, fences or other unpassable objects. So what you as the player do in the game, is essentially moving forward, while shooting some bad guys. The only real challenge presented is taking cover at the right time, and not slipping your thumbs while aiming your guns. It feels like playing an interactive movie.

While CoD might be an extreme example of this phenomena, it is a trend we see everywhere in games today. Even the latest Zelda games now have a companion constantly reminding you where to go. And they are usually very specific: "Talk to the lady with the red shirt standing next to the fountain." In a Link to the Past you were also given objectives, but they were more vague, and required exploration and interpretation by the player ("Find an elderly man in Kakiriko Village").

I have to run out for a second now, but I think my point has come across. Surely I'm not alone in thinking this? What do you think?

[Dogg Thang]

I haven't played Black Ops but I'm not sure I agree with your point entirely. Though I seem to be one of the only people on the planet who think that the complete lack of direction in the original Metroid was simply a pain in the ass. I don't miss that at all.

For me, I like my objectives to be clear. I want to know what I am doing and why. That's really important to me, especially these days when games look and sound so good and can be so immersive. I can't be immersed if I haven't a notion why my character is doing what they're doing.

So I want to know my goals at any one time.

That said, constant hand-holding can be annoying and I agree with your Zelda examples. Because what can be much more clever, and certainly more immersive, is when a game can let you reach your own conclusions as to what you need to do. In those cases, you're thinking like the character and that is the ideal in my opinion.

At its most basic, it's the difference between being dumped in a level with text on screen saying 'find the red key to get to the exit' and being allowed explore a level, find a red lock and figure out, 'ah, I probably need a red key for this'.

I like being able to figure things out for myself in games. For that to work, games companies need to craft coherent worlds, characters, environments and often stories and very few games companies seem able to do that.

[kernow]

All the heavily scripted FPS's and stuff, you feel like you might as well not be there. Theres a few videos of black ops on youtube, someone playing it on veteran and just not shooting once, letting all the scripted 'action' happen and just walking about basically.

[speedlolita]

This is why I don't play RPGs anymore.

[egparadigm]

I share your sense of frustration in a sense. I think we as mere players are basically at the mercy of developers. If they choose to develop a game or if the industry starts to shift in a certain direction, old styles of play, genre or whatever may cease to exist. As a member of an increasingly diminishing minority or perhaps one that doesn't generate revenue you are guaranteed to see your desires go unsatisfied.

Personally, the issue of hand-holding is not one I particularly relate to. Far too often I find myself without a blind clue as to what I'm supposed to be doing, or how. How many other people sit down to a game and think to themselves "I'm playing this wrong"? How should it even be possible to play a game wrong? Most often it will be something along the lines of there being some specific method that is imparted by a badly directed cutscene, which you are supposed to exploit consistently in order to make dispatching enemies easier.

For example, there was something particularly confusing about the way you were supposed to kill enemies in Oddworld: Stranger's Wrath. I also struggled for a long time and was forced to consult an FAQ with Viewtiful Joe. Once I got it, it was great fun, but I didn't grasp the importance of dodging attacks in order to daze opponents. Actually, the latter did explain the mechanic fairly straightforwardly in the tutorial, but still I was able to get halfway through with no such understanding.

I also have a strong sense that games are meant to be played a certain way. In stealth games for instance I will continually reload checkpoints if I am spotted, rather than just proceeding regardless. It can be a frustrating experience. Maybe I just have undiagnosed OCD?

I think many will find what I have said contentious. I think it all depends on how good you are at picking up hints from the game. Personally my concentration level is pretty poor most of the time. The difficulty for developers must be in catering to a broad audience.

[Neon Ignition]

I generally don't mind it, so many games are released broken and glitched in todays 'patch' world that I don't have the time to spend ages working out what to do or where to go. Old, old games were very straight forward and unguided compared to todays games but I guess as 2D games it was easier to guide the player as you typically only had 1 way to go, though I completely agree about the annoying old design of the early Metroids.

[Yakumo]

The thing i hate the most that pretty much every game does these days is "hold the X button to shoot" and few steps in , "hold the A Button to jump" and so one. I really f*ing hate that ****. Sometimes these so called helpful hi ts get in the way more than anything else. Why can't we atleast have an option to switch them off. Blood Stone does give you that option so at least some game companies think like a true gamer.

[Dirty Sanchez]

Is this really that different from say Space Invaders?

You have a choice of moving left or right in a defined corridor, facing a scripted enemy that just keeps advancing. Pacman, solid corridors with ghosts following scripted patterns, patterns that can be exploited to 'force' the ghosts to follow you or misdirect them.

The presentation has changed but it's not that far removed from your irk. Back in the day Dragons Lair was the pinancle of gaming - scripted moves with simple direction/action choices.

[Dirty Sanchez]

I spend 99% of my gaming time online, playing others who do not have scripted patterns. Yes, some do play repeatatively - camping in spot A etc, but the whole world is more 'real' that the single player game.

[Dogg Thang]

Back in the day Dragons Lair was the pinancle of gaming - scripted moves with simple direction/action choices.

No, Dragon's Lair was NEVER the pinnacle of gaming. May have been the pinnacle of graphics but very few people were ever fooled into thinking it was good in gameplay terms.

[Dirty Sanchez]

No, Dragon's Lair was NEVER the pinnacle of gaming. May have been the pinnacle of graphics but very few people were ever fooled into thinking it was good in gameplay terms.

Really? In 1983 without the benefit of the net and limited info available this was such a leap from what was available. Limited? Of course but that didn't stop the queues and the search for a machine.

You were 9 at the time, I doubt you were this cynical AT THE TIME.

[QualityChimp]

Maybe you need to try playing some different style games and give them the time they deserve?

I see you enjoyed Red Dead Redemption. How much of it did you play? Yeah, yeah, I need to rescue my wife. Maybe I'm a little busy hunting bears in the Northern mountains?

My 360 died last year and I've only got Fallout 3 for my PS3, so I thought I'd give it a whirl. I was overwhelmed with how much there was to see/do/shoot/greet. I've still not found that UFO, despite pumping hours into it. There's a real sense of discovery and sneaking about undiscovered in these wasted cities.

I think a little roller-coaster-style thrills can be as much fun as exploring a forest, but you need to put the time aside to do it.

I think I've only played about 12 games this year, including Live Arcade titles, and I've sunk a lot of time into each one.

I think a lot of these threads wouldn't appear if we actually played one game at a time.

[NemesiS]

If you're after a throwback to bygone days where games just played out with no prompting or instructions, then get yourself a copy of Demons Souls Alex. It doesn't hold your hand, and i think you'll be pleasantly surprised...

[Brats]

Or Minecraft.

Like others, I don't think the situation is much different today than it ever was, it's just the perception. Black Ops may be a linear game, but structure-wise it's doing the same thing as something like Capcom's Commando, an action shooting game where the player can change the direction they are facing but ultimately has the follow a linear path. The only difference is that whereas in the first game the path was limited by the sides of the screen, now it's limited by blocked off paths and non-opening doorways.

Conversely, you've got stuff like Fallout 3 which is massively open. The biggest crticicism I read about people who don't like Bethesda's games is that they are too open.

I think you could argue that some franchises have become a little more 'hand holdy'. Zelda is a good example. Imo the first few hours of the last few Zelda games have been boring as hell as you are very restricted and forced to complete small tasks until the world opens up. However, the most recent Castlevania game on the 360 is the complete opposite. The player is dumped in the world with no instructions and a number of maze like castles to explore, with six characters that play and level up in completely different ways.

[JSR]

I think I might have to add a bit to my first post: My feeling is that the games not only are too linear in movement, but also holding your hand too much when overcoming obstacles presented in the game. In a boss fight today, you are either told what to do ("Hit it's weak spot for massive damage!") or presented with a red glowing point on the boss for you to attack. The same can be said about traversing levels in game. Found a locked door? Luckily there's a spare key in the adjacent room.

While Fallout 3 and Oblivion have wide open landscapes, you rarely have to figure out what to do within each situation. It's basically a bunch of fetch quests with some NPC dialog in between. You might feel as you are doing something extraordinary, but at no time in the games are not going from point A to point B. You are never presented with a mission which there could be several possible answers, but only one working solution. Where you have to use hints, exploration and even small bit of trial and error to succeed.

Look back to Another World (Out of this World) and Flashback in the 16bit days. While they are very niche, and almost a genre of their own, they include so much of what I feel has been lost in games today. They gave you clues and items which could be applied in a later situation if the player added a small dose of logic. While today, games are only challenging by turning the odds against you versus the enemies in games.

Demon's Souls looks like a great throwback to the kind of gaming I miss, and that is the reason it's on the top of my wishlist for Christmas (along with Kinect, which is the exact opposite :P).