Just finished Wind Waker for the second time

[Adam Stone]

I have been playing Wind Waker this morning with no aim or goal at mind, simply just experimenting and playing around with the environments, when I reminded myself of one of the many little touches that help create the overall realistic world?

I have mentioned this in the past, however it needs to be mentioned again. Definitely one of the most trivial little touches but one I hold the highest
If you position a pot on a crack which releases hot steam on the first dungeon on Dragon Island, the pressure lifts the pot and it turns in midair? however, if u put a stone on the crack the weight is too great for the steam to lift.

Whichever of the Zelda games you played first will be the most significant. Mine is DX (the colour version of Link's Awakening), and all the 3D games followed. Interesting to note how few original puzzles are in WW, especially when compared to the difference in dungeon design between OoT and Majora's Mask.

Its a shame but I agree with that, however i also thought the puzzles may have been slightly less original, but also to a different style? less restricted if you will. Which was a positive thing. A small example being the bomb plants? If say, u had to blow up a bomb plant on a wall in OOT you had to make some sort of heat touch it? in WW you are given a number of things to do. You can of course apply heat to the bomb, but u can also throw an item at it, such as a rock or a stick. Little things like this help to make the overall experience of WW seem more polished and ?real? then OOT imo. Also another example being during the Fire Temple where you must cut the ropes attached to a platform to allow it to fall into the lower depths, or place a number of crates in an orderly fashion so that when the water rises it creates a path for link to cross....

But I do agree that a lot of the ideas were ?borrowed? from the previous titles and ultimately creates the feeling of unoriginality. Shame really, but overall I really did enjoy the puzzles and dungeons as a whole. A little harder (well, in some cases A LOT harder) would have been nice. Hopefully in the next Zelda Nintendo shall explore their creative skills further and create some dungeons that really push our imaginations?

[Magnakai]

Just a small note to say that I know plenty of people who got into LTTP very deeply, and then preferred Ocarina when it was released.
*shrugs*
I say that it's epic scope is unmatched in an action game.

[dataDave]

Whoever mentioned the stained glass part from WW is spot on. That part gave me the shivers, expecially with the original castle theme from LttP playing in the background. Best part of the game, by far and far.

I say that it's (LttP's) epic scope is unmatched in an action game.

Me too, I remember being dragged into the Dark world and then thinking "WTF? How does all this fit on the cart!!". Little did I know at the time that this was the true beginning of the game and everything I'd done before was mearly a training period.

After a few minutes of exploration I'd been jumped by the horrible new creatures, looked in disgust at the new dreary colour palette, discovered new obsticles I had no clue how to pass such as the weird looking hammer stumps and broken bridges. Then I had to pay a bleeding annoying monkey 500r to progress!! The cheek!

Nowadays it's so simple to guess "Oh, I'll need the hookshot for this bit" which spoils things a little. Information from folk is no longer valuable, which usually leads me to skip pointless banter and gossip.

I crave for a new 2D zelda on the GBA using the original sprite sets. Screw that new-style Capcom 4-swords ****e. It could be doing with hard-ass dungeons like those found in LttP and LA too. That bit that's been taken out of the GBA version in the ice dungeon has to be my most memorable sticking point.

As for dungeon quality in a 3D Zelda, I'd have to say MM wins by a mile, coupled with the 3 day time limit you really did encounter some pant-filling moments when looking for the big-key at some parts. I certainly didn't want to have to start the Ocean Temple from scratch again which is what, over around 15 seconds left to spare, nearly happened. Juggling with the water flow gave me one big headache.

The parts of any Zelda game that really uplift me however are the closing moments of the game. Say, the part where you've completed every dungeon and you begin to run, confidently tooled up to f*#k, towards Ganons castle. I'd really welcome a new turnaround to this period, such as for instance you reach the castle say - and then it turns out you must complete a further 3-4 extra hard dungeons before you can break the seal on the front door. I'm not really too keen on the latest method of 'borrowing' segments of previous dungeons and then slapping them all together to make Ganons castle - that's a bit **** and lazy IMO. I'd like another TRUE Ganon's castle, like the one found on LttP - the parts with the invisible flooring were testicle constrictingly painful IIRC, at the same time having to contend with one of those bastard wizards shooting you with magic crap whilst you tried to navigate across.

Holy **** - then there was that part where you were confronted with a gap, yet no object to grasp onto with the hookshot to make it across. You had to face the wall and then run at it, bouncing you back and over the gap. That bast took me days to work out, a lot harder than the ice-block puzzle bit I mentioned earlier. I want more of that sort of thing.

[Oh! My Car!]

man, no matter what anyone says...Zelda is the ****
After playing WW all the way through, the recent gaming drought of the summer has lead me to playing OOT for the past two weeks (on GC, tho not the Master Quest, mind)...I had played it loads before, although I never actually owned it on the N64.....
I've been playing it every day and have ammassed a wealth of everything, although I'm most proud with my relatively high skulta count

What's funny is all my mates played WW after OOT and were constantly going "ohhh, that's like OOT"...my experience is reversed, but I'm having all the more fun playing--so no matter which Zelda you play first (Link's Awakening for me) or in which order....you still get that feeling

you know the one 8)

[Magnakai]

you still get that feeling

you know the one 8)

I thought that was the curry I had last night...

[ryodi]

I am still undecided about Wind Waker. It is without doubt one of the most visually stunning games around and the atmosphere and characters cannot be beaton but as a game I found it lacking a certain something. The sense of doom has already been mentioned but the disparate locations didn't help either I think. They were so far apart and most bore little relation to each other, the star islands in particular felt a little like filler to me. Add to this the impressive but not very difficult or memorable bosses with the notable exception of Ganon and the fact that most of the best moments actually took place in 'old hyrule' did not really help the sense of longing for the N64 version.

IMO the best parts bookended the filler. The glorious opening sequence and the memorable final battle (which is on a par with the finale of OOT).

I actually ordered the Bonus Disk from the Stars Catalogue because I was going to sell WW but having read this thread I am contemplating going through it again. Or more likely I'll sell it now and pick it up again on Players Choice.

[taurusnipple]

After all this talk about Wind Waker over the past few days, I couldn't resist playing it again. I'm now well into it, going for a second completion I might add, this time I've got the camera. ****, as I type this I forgot to take my picture of the 1st Boss. That sucks big time.

Comparing it to OOT... well it's tough. I love them both. However, theres more to do in OOT. Fishing, I remember that so fondly. I wanted to get a huge fish, spent hours into the early morning to get a big'un and I recall the rain splashing, the thunder, and the moon shining. Just added so much to the experiance. Speaking of which, the single biggest thing I was wanting for MM was more fishing, I was so gutted when I found out it wasn't added. For me, MM is the weakest in the series. SNES version was well ace too, have fond memories of having Key103 on the radio whilst playing.

[dataDave]

Did anyone ever catch that sodding eel? I can get it to appear but when I do the sinking lure is nowhere to be found. GRRR. ft:

[taurusnipple]

noooooooooooooo, forgot about that too.

[King_of_Hyrule]

There are only two things I really didn't like in WW, and they're the only things keeping it below OoT IMO.

- The hit ratio
- Sea combat

The hit ratio doesn't really need explanation. It was too leniant. When most enemies do damage of a quarter heart, or half of one, I'd say the game is made significantly easier. I mean, taking that much damage in OoT would be almost unheard of (that I can remember).

Sea combat. I don't think it was as fluid or as smooth as it should've been. It relied too much on fixating on a single enemy, with tons of others around you, and you couldn't even really move out of the way to dodge, you were just a helpless sitting duck. For the most part, you CAN simply not fight, but combat at sea could've been a lot better and a lot more fun...and it would've made WW that much better.

However, regarding the atmosphere, gameplay, dungeons, etc, I think WW is absolutely wonderful. A true masterpiece regardless of those two discrepencies I have.

[Manta Ray vs Guitar]

Here's a tip:

On your second playthrough, don't collect any non-essential quest items. No heart pieces, upgrades etc.

The game instantly becomes non-tedious as well as difficult: The two biggest complaints about the game solved. It's also a lot shorter this way, so the experience is condensed.

That's not a defence of the sometimes shoddy game design so much as a pointer on how to better enjoy the game.

[SharkAttack]

What would have been good half way through Wind Waker is if one of the islands, say maybe Windfall Island, had been destroyed like Greatfish Isle supposedly was. All the inhabitants could have been stranded on bits of wood and fishing boats and being attacked by Giant Octos that you had to sail in and defend them from. The scene could have been played out in stormy conditions and the windfall characters could have been all downbeat and depressed, spending the remainder of the game floating off to a smaller island to set up camp.

Obviously this would have written off most of the side quests from the second half onwards, but if encouragement was there to get them done in the first half, it might have made the second half seem a lot more urgent! "We MUST get the Tri Force NOW before Ganondorf does!".

ALSO, they should have brought in unique enemy characters, nothing to do with Ganondorf, protecting the tri force maps. I still think its odd that Ganondorf wants the tri force - But his henchmen are defending the maps rather than bringing them to him.

[Tig]

What would have been good half way through Wind Waker is if one of the islands, say maybe Windfall Island, had been destroyed like Greatfish Isle supposedly was.

I thought of this too. At some point halfway through the game, your boat says something along the lines of "finish your buisness here now so you don't have any regrets later". I'm not sure what that was supposed to mean, but the implication was that Outset was in danger.

I reckon it would've been great if Ganon had destroyed Outset. It would've added some much-needed excitement and emotional envolvement, as well as the sense of danger.

But granny Link would have to be saved somehow

[SharkAttack]

Just out of interest - What the hell happened to Aryll? The pirates were taking her back to Outset but they aren't anywhere? Am I just supposed to forget?

[Magnakai]

Just out of interest - What the hell happened to Aryll? The pirates were taking her back to Outset but they aren't anywhere? Am I just supposed to forget?

Probably just chilling on their boat, sipping lemonade.
That's what I would do...