2nd hand sales - good or bad for the industry?

[charlesr]

What do you reckon and why?

[Flabio]

Nope. Not going here again. Not after last time.

[charlesr]

I don't really know much about the topic, but a while back I theorised that there is a certain amount of cash to be spent on games globally and it might not matter if some of it is spent on 2nd hand games.
People who purchase 2nd hand games enable people who trade in their games to buy more new games more often.
Videogame sales have bloomed over the last 10 years and this has to be attributable to something - maybe it's 2nd hand games.

I was also thinking that if 2nd hand sales are so bad, why haven't car companies stamped down on 2nd hand car sales, but I guess media is a little different - unless you count the packaging, with scratched discs and crumpled manuals, the actual game experience is the same whether you buy new or second hand, whereas cars deteriorate - seats harden, controls get looser, parts wear out and have to be replaced at a cost.

I don't think I know what to vote for, which is why I put monkeys.

[charlesr]

Nope. Not going here again. Not after last time.

Where was the last one?

[averybluemonkey]

I was also thinking that if 2nd hand sales are so bad, why haven't car companies stamped down on 2nd hand car sales, but I guess media is a little different - unless you count the packaging, with scratched discs and crumpled manuals, the actual game experience is the same whether you buy new or second hand, whereas cars deteriorate - seats harden, controls get looser, parts wear out and have to be replaced at a cost.

Yeah a lot of car manufacturers make money from the replacement parts and maintenance don't they? That's why I quite like the one time pass system they've got in a lot of games now so that at least the developers can make some money off the 2nd hand sales. Whenever possible I buy new when the game is a lower profile release, but I have no problem buying second hand if it's of a big game that's going to sell a ton of copies anyway.

[Dogg Thang]

If I remember correctly, many of the world's car tests like MOTs and whatnot were pushed by car manufacturers to reduce the number of second hand cars in circulation and I think they are also behind many subsidised scrappage schemes, having lobbied that their success boosts the economy. So they do take steps to at least reduce the number of second hand cars.

You're right that it allows some people then to buy new games, like an upgrade scheme, but I would have thought the number of people engaging in a second hand buying cycle underneath that would remove any benefit from that. Like with old piracy discussions, some of those people would never have bought the games new but what I find somewhat alarming is how little the games drop at times when preowned. Meaning those gamers were close to paying full price and may well have paid full price but in saving a few quid (and who can blame them? They're still paying for a product) now nothing from that sale goes to the developer, publisher and the huge number of other people involved in that chain.

[sj33]

I don't wanna get too wrapped up in this, mainly because I ultimately 100% support a person's right to sell on a product that they own.

But the gaming industry does have some unique challenges that other industries such as the music industry don't really have. The most significant problem is that the major gaming retailers (Game, GameStation etc.) put massive focus on preowned titles, and actively discourage people from buying new games by placing the same game within close vicinity to it in order to encourage people to buy preowned instead. This is something that doesn't tend to happen with CDs in the likes of Zavvi or HMV. The entire gaming retail sector is geared towards preowned games, and it is in their interest to discourage new sales. The gaming retail sector is the cancer here.
Compounding this is the problem of 'launch period preowned', which is perceived as the most damaging because it directly eats into the sales of new games, normally just shaving 2 or 3 quid off the full price. They need to reach some kind of compromise here.

But as I say, not only do people have every right to sell on their game and buy preowned purchases, but preowned also ensures that games continue to have a shelve life, which is critically important. The problem isn't necessarily the practice of preowned sales, it's the actions of major gaming retailers greedily maximise their own profit at the expense of the industry, a problem that the music industry doesn't really have to the same degree. No wonder why publishers are pushing to go digital.

[Dogg Thang]

^^ Yep, I pretty much agree with everything here.

['Press Start']

Just so I understand, when a game is sold 2nd hand the developer gets ?0?

Edit: Okay just figured it out for myself. I'll just say this, I purchased Darksiders 2nd hand for ?15 from gamestation. After playing it I wondered why the hell I didn't buy it full price as I loved it, outcome is Darksiders 2 will be purchased full price.

If it was not for the 2nd hand purchase there would be no full price purchase of the sequel or next game from the developer (in the above situation). Sometimes that 2nd hand punt will make you stand up and take notice of a developer/game who you would not have normally invested in.

I think monkeys is the right choice as there is a lot of grey in this area. Ideally when a game is scanned back into a shops inventory 2nd hand the sale of that game should have the same ? sharing ratio as a full price title.

I guess game shops would die overnight if 2nd hand sales didn't exist?

[charlesr]

@Press start:
For traditional physical media that's correct. Although someone would have earlier traded that item in, enabling them to purchase a different new game perhaps a month earlier than they might have done without the extra credit from the trade in, so a publisher benefited in some small way.

Perhaps the secret would be for games to include their own trade in codes - complete the game and get a code generated from your hardware serial number which can then be used to generate credit somehow (??) for a new game from the SAME publisher. The process would transfer you to an advert section where you could even choose which game to assign the code to.

[charlesr]

The entire gaming retail sector is geared towards preowned games, and it is in their interest to discourage new sales.

Can that be true? If you were to take it to its conclusion, then there would be no new games thus killing their sector - thus I find it hard to believe that any effort to persuade buyers one way or the other would be anything other than a) futile and b) self harming. I have no way of figuring it out though.

[eastyy]

trouble i have with second hand games is most games shops i have been in there near full priced

people use the car buying analogy but once the car company has made there car and sold it they only support it till the warranty is over and they have nothing to do with the car ever again(though as mentioned above they still sell spare parts etc).....with games companies there is a level of support and updating made for the game (and usually pay dlc)

i think developers should get a small cut of the profits....purely cos i dont want all these measures like once of codes for new games only such as for multiplayer

[averybluemonkey]

But just because someone trades in a game that is no guarantee they will put that money to a new game, many just put that money into more second hand games meaning no developers receive anything. Others go for the cash option and take the money down the pub.

[ETC]

Good when it's between personal sellers as in on here bad when shops pretty much change their business model so that almost 90% of the stock is pre owned ie game, either go full second hand like Cex or stop trying to hawk your pound cheaper pre owned version that you paid ?4 at every opportunity ****ards!

[dataDave]

I chose monkeys because I think both new retail and second hand sales are bad for the industry.

I think all games should be download/subscription only, 1-player, and cost triple what they do now.

Inviting any friends round for a gaming session gets you and any involved parties a minimum of five years behind bars.

Here in Singapore 2nd hand sales are practically outlawed, which means it's impossible to get hold of anything that goes out of print. I get raped financially and have to buy older stuff via XBL marketplace at around the same price it was new. It's great, I love it so much. I especially like it when the said DLC doesn't work.

Oh yeah, a lot of market place titles aren't available in this region either. So I have to do without like a good little boy.