2nd hand sales - good or bad for the industry?

[dataDave]

Why don't we just ban video games? Without typing another wall of text that no one is going to read or even quote bits out of surely that's the ultimate outcome to any of this?

[Skull Commander]

I have said it before but second hand games are a good thing. They enable people to be able to afford new games via trade ins, and also enable people watching their money to play more games than they would perhaps be able to afford. I agree that they should not be the focus of shops like Game and HMV though, with both shops seemingly cutting right down on the amount of new games they sell.

[nakamura]

I would like to see a slight reshuffle of the system so publishers make a small amount on used items. EA have done it with their online pass system which overall I think is a fair idea, apart from the fact they shut servers down far too quickly.

[sj33]

The problem with the Online Pass system is that is, as you say, it puts a limit to the amount of time that content will be available. It's hard to imagine that we'll be able to access this content in 10 years time in the same way we still play the odd Playstation game without such hoops to jump through. Sure, retro gaming is a niche within a niche, but take a loook at the games you might have in your collection and imagine if they had a life expectancy.

But I can't see it being a long-term thing - this isn't being done to harm gamers, it's just part of the tug-of-war battle between publishers and retailers, and we're the ones who get affected. Hopefully they'll both get their act together. It's hard to believe that they can't negotiate some kind of deal with regards to launch period preowned titles.

[BaronSqwelch]

If I cant trade my games in each week then instead of playing 40 or so new games a year I will play 3 or 4. Or may even become the dreaded COD/FIFA player.

But I never buy anything preowned either so with me they benefit.

My mate however has never bought a brand new game and would never dream of buying an online pass so he is of no benefit to the developers.

Are there more players like me or like him around?

TBH I dont see a problem with the online pass, especially with a game where you would be using the companies servers to play it. Offline games its more of a grey area but new buyers like me normally get extra content ala Arkham City. Stuff that maybe should have come on the disk but in this day and age would not be...

[dataDave]

Each piece of software registered to an individual console which must be online to play until the publishers decide to pull the plug. Perfect.

[EvilBoris]

I could see a two tier system in future, maybe a ?45 one use copy you purchase or a ?65 reusable version, which the developers and retail make a few quid more on.

[Fader209]

It has all gotten a bit stupid these days with people buying games on release, completing them and trading them in at CEX etc for sometimes a profit. Then again it is their right to sell what is theirs whenever they wish.

Looking at my game shelf of 65+ current gen games I counted only 12 preowned games - the reason being that usually a preowned game is something I take a chance on to see what it is like, it's cheap and should give me a little bit of gaming. Sometimes these chances don't work out and I get rid of them without losing too much moneys as what I would have done had I bought it new hence the reason there aren't many preowned games in my list (I can name drop a few that are gone - Assassins Creed 1 + 2, Mirrors Edge, Tomb Raider, Battalion Wars, Sonic Unleashed).
Other times it works the other way and I will be impressed by a purchase that I get hooked on the series - Bioshock for example.

[Mayhem]

Can that be true? If you were to take it to its conclusion, then there would be no new games thus killing their sector - thus I find it hard to believe that any effort to persuade buyers one way or the other would be anything other than a) futile and b) self harming. I have no way of figuring it out though.

Shops make bugger all on sales of new games, they pretty much survive through second hand buy/sell, third party accessories, and insurance (moreso in the US). Companies need the shops to sell and distribute their hardware. If they figure out a way to get their new Xbox 720, PS4 or Wii Z into the hands of the consumers without needing the shops, then shops will die a quick death imo. Everything will go virtual in terms of purchase, even if the games don't go digital just yet.

[FelixofMars]

I chose monkeys because its not even worth arguing, I really don't see how the shops make no profit what so ever but I think in general retail shops are now unsubstantial and will go the way of the dinosaur.

The internet has made it too easy to order online for next day delivery. All I do know is currently the developer gets the smallest cut of the profits, so anything where they can be their own publisher has to be a positive and cut out the massive middle man.

In some ways I like the idea of preowed and without it there are possibly gems that I would have missed unless someone didn't have a copy they wanted to flog. I also hate preowned as it means at the core level a loss of sales, and lets not tart it up by saying "oooh! its not a lost customer" of course it is! Fact of the matter is apart from a few core games I never think that I will buy the next game these guys developed because I bought their other game second hand. What kind of ridiculous notion is that?

But have to say I would rather people sold thier preowns on private listings rather than going through the stores, I think that its awful that Game etc will give you say ?10 store credit then put the game up for ?5 less than the RRP. Its bad for everyone apart from the store.

[Neon Ignition]

I chose Monkeys as I don't think it dramatically affects the industry either way, merely it's become an area that the industry has become obsessed with because they realised they lost the piracy battle. I'd imagine most gamers buy a mix of new and second hand games, after all, you need the new buyers to buy enough titles in order for the second hand stock to exist to sell. Many a sequel will have been sold new off the back of its predecessors second hand sales and even those who just play older second hand games still have to buy a console and accessories that they might very well have not bothered with at all had the second hand market existed. The second hand market has been around forever and yet the industry is the biggest its ever been. It's quite typical that such a thing would be targeted rather than look at the spending the industry does and how it could manage finances better. But then again, the media world as a whole is a very regressive industry.

It's not going to go away, just as the high street shops aren't going to go away. Thoughts to the contrary are short sighted, failing every time to take into account the human element which has stopped pretty much every single other market from going online only. It's time the games industry faced facts and got on with its own affairs instead of trying to fix things that aren't really broken and ultimately bleed the consumer, not the retailer.

[Charlie]

Overall I suspect the second hand market is good for the industry, it allows gamers who buy a great many games brand new to sell them on which in turn puts money in their pockets to spend on more brand new games.

[FelixofMars]

I think this is a good point, the problem with the industry, is the industry itself. It feels the need to turn out more and more big budget titles that fall into the medium quality category with bigger and bigger teams. I have probably already mentioned this but it the "Good old days" when I was lad etc I might buy one or two games a year and even then there might have been only one game a month. Nowadays there are new games per week on the retail front and of course new releases every day from the digital side like Iphone and while these are much cheaper the market is flooded. Why would I go and buy an average retail game when I can get some decent indie games or the latest AAA game.

As Cliffy B said in a recent interview and other have hinted the mid range retail game market is dead, there is no room for them and they will be heavily discounted when they fail at market. While its good to have some new IPs they must be pitched at the same quality bar as the endless sequels like COD to be noticed. You cannot do a mid range game at retail anymore.

The second hand market has been around forever and yet the industry is the biggest its ever been. It's quite typical that such a thing would be targeted rather than look at the spending the industry does and how it could manage finances better. But then again, the media world as a whole is a very regressive industry.

[Brad]

My only opinion on the matter is that digital versions should be cheaper than physical versions and the stores shouldn't have a problem with this because they know that they'll be selling that physical version over and over again and making a shedload on it that the devs and publishers won't see.

[QualityChimp]

I want to keep the industry going and think pre-order bonuses that later adopters have to pay extra for is fair enough, but within reason. Taking big chunks out of a game, like Arkham City is a bit naughty, IMO.

As being discussed in other threads, I primarily buy second-hand games, but surely people playing games, learning about developers and their output, talking about it online and with friends, all gets more sales in the long run?

I recently bought Oblivion second-hand with Shivering Isles and Knights of the Nine for ?15 but would have happily bought it direct from Live but it's ?20 on its own, with SI and NotN 2400 and 800 points, respectively. I can sell my physical copy for ?9, so the incentive to have bought it off Live just isn't there. If the prices reflected this scenario and prices matched second-hand ones, I'd buy more to support the industry more.