Japan, "Your Games Just Suck"

[averybluemonkey]

I have no idea of modern pc gaming if thats what your getting at as i left that when point & click adventures stopped been made & all i could see where hundreds of dull strategy & war games. Yes there may have been some good games but their was an awful lot of ****e too, the idea that the "golden age" was only back in the 80's / 90's is laughable. Crap games are not a new thing.

No I was saying that Western developers were producing absolutely fantastic games back in the 80s and 90s it's just that they were mostly on the PC rather than consoles. I don't understand how any PC gamer back then could think Western developers weren't great.

Console gaming on the other hand im sorry but Japan always had better stuff than the west, sure you would get the odd western developed game that was awesome but they were always playing catchup to japan. The modern generation the gap is not that much anymore, no longer is everything from japan unmatchable by western developers theres plenty of western games to give them a run for their money.

I disagree, I've yet to see a Japanese racing game since 1995 stand up to the best produced by the Western developers.
Japan has produced little in the way of decent first person shooters.
I can't think of a decent Japanese real time strategy game.
Japanese developers have always been behind the curve in terms of online gaming.
I can't think of any genre besides JRPGs, deeply concerning dating sims and perhaps fighters where the Japanese outperform the West.

[nakamura]

but fundamentally they're still the same things I was playing over ten years ago..

So are western games. Gaming hasn't moved at all this generation in terms of gameplay.

[Golgo]

I can't think of any genre besides JRPGs, deeply concerning dating sims and perhaps fighters where the Japanese outperform the West.

How about: Platformers? SRPGS? 3rd Person Shooters? 3rd Person combat/adventure types (Bayonetta, etc.)? Schmups?

And...did you say 'maybe' fighters?!

Anyway, this is getting silly, I'm out... Peace and love

[fuse]

The fact is that it's greatly insulting to someone in a Q & A to imply they borrowed their game ideas from somewhere else and this is a massively passive agressive statement. There's a time for constructive analysis and criticism of someone's product and calling them out in front of a bunch of people at their own Q & A is not the place for it. The organisers should have shut him down and refused to let the question be asked.

You seriously think it's the guy asking the question that's out of line?! In the interview that Decider-VT posted earlier (link) Phil Fish outright says that Super Mario Bros., The Legend of Zelda, and Ico are the 3 main inspirations for Fez. The question was neither passively aggressive or implying anything that had not already come from the horse's mouth.

[averybluemonkey]

How about: Platformers? SRPGS? 3rd Person Shooters? 3rd Person combat/adventure types (Bayonetta, etc.)? Schmups?

And...did you say 'maybe' fighters?!

Western developers produced plenty of great shmups back in the Amiga and PC glory days. And Western turn based strategy titles are typically far deeper than most JP SRPGs. And I think the West's track record with third person shooters is also better. And the late 80s and early 90s were full of awesome Western platformers. I mean seriously did you never play on the PC, there were loads of platformers. I said maybe fighters because while I would give the overall nod to Japan here I think the West have held their own.

[averybluemonkey]

You seriously think it's the guy asking the question that's out of line?! In the interview that Decider-VT posted earlier (link) Phil Fish outright says that Super Mario Bros., The Legend of Zelda, and Ico are the 3 main inspirations for Fez. The question was neither passively aggressive or implying anything that had not already come from the horse's mouth.

The question read aggressively to me, I think they both were kind of jerkish but enough people were attacking Fez already I felt no need to chime in on that side of the fense. I didn't realise he had previously talked about the inspiration from those games, my apologies. Still think it's pathetic how sensitive some people are about stuff like this though, people always seem to get so high and mighty about videogame related stuff.

[rmoxon]

Still think it's pathetic how sensitive some people are about stuff like this though, people always seem to get so high and mighty about videogame related stuff.

Thats not videogame related, thats just people in general.

[Yakumo]

Over the last few years the number of great Japanese games has dropped but these morons need to remember that in the 8bit, 16bit, 32bit and even 128bit (Dreamcast) days ,most western (especially American) games were total ****e. That's many years of mostly **** from the west (a few gems did appear though) while Japan has only really been out of it in this Gen. Too much emphasis on family crap for the Wii and not in tune with the target audience of the 360 and PS3.

There are still many great games from Japan though. No western fight comes close to Japanese fighters, no western shooters (NOT FPS) comes close to a Japanese one either. The problem is that the gamers of now are too interested in bloody stupid war **** and that's just what the Japanese don't like so it stands to reason that they are not gong to produce anything like that.

[tokyochojin]

Yeah, it's like when i switch on Fox channel here, hours and hours of f'in cop and detective dramas. Christ, I get it, Americans like to shoot each other. It would just be great to have some variation now and then. Same with the game industry.

[Brad]

Completely disagree about western development during the 8,16 but eras. It was all about home computer gaming back then and there were stacks of amazing games coming out all the time. Too many to even begin a list really (ok I'm on a phone and it's hard to type).

Everyone has their own memories and opinions though. No right or wrong here. That Fez bloke should have a bit more respect. Also his game looks crap. No enemies or shooting? Wtf! ;-)

[BeyondJumpFish]

Over the last few years the number of great Japanese games has dropped but these morons need to remember that in the 8bit, 16bit, 32bit and even 128bit (Dreamcast) days ,most western (especially American) games were total ****e. That's many years of mostly **** from the west (a few gems did appear though) while Japan has only really been out of it in this Gen. Too much emphasis on family crap for the Wii and not in tune with the target audience of the 360 and PS3.

There are still many great games from Japan though. No western fight comes close to Japanese fighters, no western shooters (NOT FPS) comes close to a Japanese one either. The problem is that the gamers of now are too interested in bloody stupid war **** and that's just what the Japanese don't like so it stands to reason that they are not gong to produce anything like that.

Agree.
I think the easten developers have been pushed out of this gen due to pumped out **** like COD and Fifa. If i look at my Retro collection, its all from Japan and all still massively playable. You won't be able to say that about COD in 10 years.
Anyway, i can name some cracking games thats come from the east this gen.

['Press Start']

HMmm I think Atari, Spectrum, C64, Atari ST and Amiga owners would have something to say about western games being pants through the 80s/90s.

[FelixofMars]

I always thought most modern Japanese games are clunky, they never really go the shift to 3D but there is still some amazing titles and some terrible ones but that is true across the board. We have spent so much time on streamlining games now but the quality of the gameplay can still range massively.

It's good to see that games with a high quality bar do well but the average are lost in the noise, I still think there are far too may attempts at mid range game that cannot compete with cheaper but high quality indie/phone games or the heavy hitters like Halo so there needs to be revision across the board there.

This morning I read game Hardware/Software sales down in February, why is this a surprise? there was nothing released of any quality!

As for Mr fish, his twitter posts sound as obnoxious as the statement he made. Considering he hasn't done anything part from not release Fez so far I am not sure why he has been awarded anything.

[Baseley09]

What the guy said was wrong, but his point is valid to a degree.

[Colin]

I'm not really bothered about the original point, but i've been racking my brains trying to think of something after someone's post. Genuinely, I cannot think of a single good (Non Jap) shmup from the 8/16bit era? In fact, I can't think of a good western shmup at all. Maybe you can tell me what they are and i'll realise I like some that aren't Japanese?