More trouble at Edge towers...

[Cacophanus]

OK, well, you work for GamesTM, right? How do THEY decide what games to cover and what to ignore? It would be IMPOSSIBLE without cover every single game coming out worldwide. I mean, HOW?

Don't infer upon me some kind of nepotism towards gamesTM. As Mart will happily tell you, I give them just as much stick as EDGE. The difference is that they aren't the juvenile charlatans that reside in those hallowed halls in Bath. They can take it and, most importantly, they bloody well listen.

As to your claim that it would be "impossible", I would agree (partially). It is very hard to give balanced and thorough coverage of the global market but to give up and not even try to is far, far worse.

I am not saying gamesTM's global coverage is better than EDGE's, because it isn't. They do try however and, given time, gamesTM might even get there.

Well, bully for you! happens that quite a few people out there DON'T know about some of the things that they cover! Hell, in that case, I can dismiss GamesTM's Coverage of Retro gaming in a snap of the finger - I already know about the Commodore 64 et al! Why are they telling me again?

I am not lauding gamesTM here, I was merely levelling criticism at EDGE (who like to condescend readers on matters that they already know, at least gamesTM abstain from such puerile behaviour).

[Crispin]

Plus, why review or preview something you have no interest in. It shows when a reviewer can't be bothered.

Depends on how you mean "interest" though. For example, if I was to slam Zelda: The Wind Waker because it didn't have any playable mecha characters that would be an example of unbalanced coverage. EDGE go one step further and ignore innovative and relevant games (as JAPJAC aptly pointed out) due to personal preferences. This, at the very least, confuses the hell out of your readership.

The news is no worse. During the Argentina oil strike for some reason the news companies didn't think it was worth telling us about a possible lack of oil from a major supplier. They only covered it two weeks later when we finally felt the aftereffects in the form of petrol hikes.

I knew about it beforehand because it was in the FT, and naturally they'd piss off a lot of people if they failed to mention oil shortages. But no-one else reported it. Pretty unbalanced coverage.

It's an ineveitable consequence of media. They decide either what they like or what they think we should know or what they want to tell us.

It happens because people, even editors are human. The only thing that ever stunk of arrogance is the 100 best games of all time article. In which they said it was the 100 best games ever. Next issue they said the judging process was based on their favourites with no historical context.

Which I found slightly annoying. It came across as though their opinion was better than any well reasoned argument about a game's importance. But hey, apart from that, no worries.

[Duncan]

OK, well, you work for GamesTM, right? How do THEY decide what games to cover and what to ignore? It would be IMPOSSIBLE without cover every single game coming out worldwide. I mean, HOW?

Don't infer upon me some kind of nepotism towards gamesTM. As Mart will happily tell you, I give them just as much stick as EDGE. The difference is that they aren't the juvenile charlatans that reside in those hallowed halls in Bath. They can take it and, most importantly, they bloody well listen.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not comparing one to the other in anyway. I just assumed that you might have some idea how decisions are made given the fact that you kind of work for them.

I am not lauding gamesTM here, I was merely levelling criticism at EDGE (who like to condescend readers on matters that they already know, at least gamesTM abstain from such puerile behaviour).

you think that edge talks down to it's reader? Can you give examples? I've certainly never felt that way.

[Sketcz]

just got another issue of edge in the post, I forgot, I emailed complaining about a late issue, and they bumped up my sub by an issue.

anyway, I am sensing something here between caco and EDGE where we dont have the full story. Hmmm, intriguing. Id like to hear more.

My hatred for them seems to be different, it stems mostly form Redeyes and pooles columns insulting hardcore gamers.
coupled with generally depressing journalism, it just feels so cold and empty. I was seriously thinking about quiting gaming, thankfully, I joined NTSC-UK's forums, and have taken a course of famitsu and GameTM, so should be back to normal again soon.

Personally the ammount of foreign coverage could be worse, they did after all review the japanese Otogi months before it was announced to have a UK release. This resulted in me importing the Japanese version. Though unlike caco, I found it to be one of the most refreshing games of the year, and right up there JSRF as one of my prefered XBOX games.

Also, are you still in japan caco? i was just wondering if youd heard any news on tokyo's LEVELX exhibition.

[Crispin]

If anything they talk up to their readers and use words that aren't in my dictionary, as in the paper one. Thus I feel stupid. But now, with a laptop and google, I can feel smart again!

[Moodmon]

Errr, what was the topic of conversation again?

Was it Edge editor and dep-ed quit, rest of editorial staff follow, and that's it? We've had topics about the pros and cons of this before, and most degenerate as they have now into a rudimentary version of tick (Edge supporters are it, Edge non-supporters are it...)

Some don't like it. Fine. Discuss how you think a new editorial staff will make it better/worse. Some do like it. Fine. Discuss how you think a new editorial staff will make it better/worse.

Don't moan that it is rubbish, or that it is great. Tell me how you think this news will affect your opinion on the mag. All I see is fighting.

As for my opinion...I'll wait to see what happens to it. Now THAT'S a cop-out.

[revisedgenocide]

Its just a magazine you know.
Isnt its circulation around 25k a month? With figures like that i guess they can get away with setting their own agenda.
I find it sad that numerous games journalists choose this thread to argue with each other every month. Your meant to represent us to the wider world. When you should be extolling the virtues of games to non gamers and giving our hobby a much better image you choose to bicker and nit pick. Which is unfortunte to say the least.
Please for the sake of us all join together and make up whilst helping our image. Proffesional pride whilst admirable is not everything. If you cant do that take up fly fishing or something

[Durham Red]

On a slightly separate issue, I wouldn't mind quite so much about EDGE's coverage if they did at least admit that they have ****ed up in the past (most decent journalists do this, spoilt children clearly don't).

Are we talking about the same magazine that dedicates a section to its past mistakes each month and that still regularly wrings its hands over certain reviews/judgement calls? That one? Because I sure don't see many other mags that do that.

[Brats]

I too can't see anything apart from nitpicking .

You can talk it down as much as you want, but standards should be upheld. Doubly so, when claims of high standards (by the EDGE editorial no less) are simply not met.

Nevertheless, I simply think you're making a mountain out of a molehill.

I don't ever remember Edge making such a claim and would be grateful if it could be pointed out to me.

Whenever anyone has raised the issue of "global coverage" with the EDGE editorial, they always openly claim that EDGE gives unparalleled global coverage and then consequently deny any misdemeanours on their part. To be honest, the above response is often used on any subject that the EDGE editorial have ****ed up on.

You go on about Edge openly claiming full global coverage, but I've never seen them say this. I ask again, where have they claimed this?

They could well claim that their coverage is unparalleled because in the UK magazine market, it is. AFAIK they cover more games outside of their domestic market than any other magazine in the world, so once again that claim seems justified.

To make a mistake is human, but to deny the mistake occurred and then claim that your coverage is superb is, put simply, a total ****ing joke (not to mention critically undermining the integrity for games journalism as a whole).

You constantly seem to have a beef about Edge not owning up to alledged errors on their behalf. It seems that if you make a mistake (as all magazines do) but then own up to it later on, hey all is forgiven. But if you're not seen to admit the mistake then damn you all to fiery hell .

Personally, I couldn't give a monkeys. It really doesn't matter to me. The issue of whether they publically own up to past mistakes doesn't make a jot of difference.

JAPJAC is making worthy points on the Japanese market, I can back him up too because I actually lived there and saw first-hand that both gamers and press give a **** about the medium. EDGE would have died a death a loooooooong time ago if it had been a Japanese publication.

What Japanese magazines cover the non-domestic market to the same extent as Edge? What Japanese magazines cover games which will never, ever see the light of day in Japan? If Edge were a Japanese magazine, it wouldn't cover the non-domestic market so the comparison is irrelevant.

BTW, Gamers here so give a **** about the medium too . hence why they create fan sites like this.

The Japanese have an extremely low tolerance for incompetence (as do I). Here? We are content with callous prose, a pretty layout and inconsistent content.

Personally, I think you speak for practically no-one when you talk about "here".

I do remember them consistently saying that they only cover the games that they choose to cover, which seems very much to be the case.

That's an incredibly unprofessional attitude to take really (and yet another discrepancy for EDGE's claims of being the best at what they do).[/quote]

Why is it? Don't all magazines select their coverage. I know of other entertainment mediums that cover such a broad subject and cover absolutely everything.

Japanese magazines choose to ignore the Western market. Why is it worse for Edge to ignore some of the Japanese market?

[scottcr]

Man... so much edge hatred...! It's the best magazine of its type available, gamesTM doesn't come close and their coverage and features are brilliantly written.

I tend to agree with their reviews and their scores are carefully considered.

It's only a magazine, a fairly focussed one as well and clearly not aimed at the mass market of gamers. Caco seems to have a real beef about it and it does seem very unbalanced.

Long live Edge. I love it.

[stiff_one]

Pre-release of a huge Jap DC game at the time-Daytona USA 2001. The whole country was gagging to find out the most important question-Link-up Cable support? Edge visited the team, they didn't ask, maybe they didn't even think to ask. Regardless the game did not support this feature, the whole World cried and lost a little bit more of respect for Sega. Maybe if they had asked things would of been different. We will never know.

But not to even be seen to ask - 'FFS'.

Sloppy.

Brats-I'll go on all day if you want mate. Edge is a games magazine, these are important games and important questions. Actually Edge isn't a games mag, it's an monthly industry overview filled with boring statistical information, hardware specs with a few token game mentions as a gesture.

And they are so cool aren't they? The trend of mentioning that they have been to Aki once in a blue moon to purchase some tat appears to be back again. I'm well impressed.

Edge 130:

Praising Pepsi Man PSone, which is a great little game for what it is-so bad it's good. What was the Edge score again?

Circa 1994:

"Oh Edge, your boring me. Do you think the the PSX will be able to do a perfect port of Ridge Racer PCB or what!? Do you think the Saturn will be able to do a perfect port of Virtua Fighter or what!?."

The Edge verdict on Ps2 Ridge Racer V? The best new-skool 3D arcade racer in the home ever, could be purchased on Jap import for 65 squid day one, better than Rave Racer coin-op as a single player game-bargain of the century. Laughable.

Edge bores.

You are absolutely crazy.

[stiff_one]

On a slightly separate issue, I wouldn't mind quite so much about EDGE's coverage if they did at least admit that they have ****ed up in the past (most decent journalists do this, spoilt children clearly don't).

Are we talking about the same magazine that dedicates a section to its past mistakes each month and that still regularly wrings its hands over certain reviews/judgement calls? That one? Because I sure don't see many other mags that do that.

Don't worry, Caco has an extensive database of all of Edge's mistakes. When its exposed to the world it will make front page news and Future Towers will crumble.

[Max M]

You are absolutely crazy.

Please, I agree that his post was a bit nuts, but leave the one line insults like that elsewhere. They aren't needed here. We're having an interesting discussion.

Again, the Edge detractors would be better off starting their own fanzine and showing us all how it should be done instead of just bitching.

I don't understand this view at all. So because I'm not in a rock band I'm not allowed to critcicise, say, Travis? Should Jonathan Ross quit reviewing movies? "You try acting before you slag off others!".

And yes, Cacophanus is crazy, but if I recall correctly, David and Ste could be just as unprofessional and nasty on the old Edge forums. David called Caco's OTOGI review on this site a "piece of ****" because it didn't score as highly as he would've liked and accused him of bating Edge. Heaven forbid someone genuinely has a different opinion to Edge. I don't know why he's still so bitter and twisted though.

[stiff_one]

Oi Max, you said Caco is crazy in your post, how come I'm not allowed?

If I make it 2 lines is that ok?

Better 1 line which makes a point than the quote I quoted from JJ, I really was dumbfounded by his post, especially the end, its like he's typing out of breath and he's in some kind of massive shock or something. Its absolutely crazy.

[marcus]

Again this has clearly gone well off the rails, the actual issue of the implications of Edge staff leaving has long since been superseeded by the usual pro and anti-Edge opinions and observations that we see here time and time again in these recurring threads.

There are a lot of good topics on this board right at this moment which are far more deserving of your posts, hell, why not even read some of our reviews off the homepage and leave some Feedback for our writers instead - at least they would care for the comments you make, unlike members of Edge's editorial team whom I expect would just sit back and laugh were they to bother to read this in the first place.

ft: