Virtual Reality

[Asura]

It's one thing the quest has done right, they didn't bring out the quest 3 and just throw away quest 2 users Sony could have very easily had a BC mode for VR games built into the PS5 but some Exec probably saw the cost to add this feature and decided that it wasn't worth the dev costs vs the return, No doubt completely ignoring, good publicity as well as uptake of older titles that have had their day on ps4 but could be finding a whole new audience on ps5.

It has to be something like that. Because the problem isn't technical. Sure, PSVR1 games won't "just run" on the PSVR2 because the interface paradigm is different, but this is far from an insurmountable problem.

I've got to assume that Sony were hoping the PSVR2 would be an unexpected success (the PSVR1 kinda stunned them; it sold 5m or around half of the Vita, which I'm pretty sure beat their estimates), and would justify making tarted-up versions of the ~5 or so PSVR1 big hits (the likes of Wipeout, AstroBot, Blood&Truth, VR Worlds) to sell to people a second time. But as the hardware hasn't achieved anywhere near that level of support, they've kinda screwed up.

I actually think PSVR2 is really damaging for the VR industry. It would've really helped things if Sony had made it a success. The PSVR1 did that.

[wakka]

It was such a disappointment when it was confirmed that BC wouldn't be added. I consoled myself that this was because they were virtually guaranteed to reissue the best VR1 titles, since they would be an easy way of filling up the release schedule in year one.

And yet, crickets. As you point out Asura, it indicates that Sony are unwilling to support the machine due to its poor sales. Which seems like very bad news for entirely new software, if they're not even zhuzhing the existing stuff.

It's a real shame, all around.

It will be very interesting to see if we get a VR direct in a few months.

[Lebowski]

It has to be something like that. Because the problem isn't technical. Sure, PSVR1 games won't "just run" on the PSVR2 because the interface paradigm is different, but this is far from an insurmountable problem.

I've got to assume that Sony were hoping the PSVR2 would be an unexpected success (the PSVR1 kinda stunned them; it sold 5m or around half of the Vita, which I'm pretty sure beat their estimates), and would justify making tarted-up versions of the ~5 or so PSVR1 big hits (the likes of Wipeout, AstroBot, Blood&Truth, VR Worlds) to sell to people a second time. But as the hardware hasn't achieved anywhere near that level of support, they've kinda screwed up.

I actually think PSVR2 is really damaging for the VR industry. It would've really helped things if Sony had made it a success. The PSVR1 did that.

It's an interesting take to say it's damaging the market, as a lot of PCVR players say the exact same thing about the Quest. It opened up a market up to cheap throw away apps and experiences in a rush to the bottom type scenario in a very similar to what we have seen on the iOS and Android stores.

This has led to dumbing down as devs switch to quest as their target platform making games with quest pc cross play lobbies to capitalise on both audiences but diluting the quality of the PCVR market. The cheap entry price and toy like nature of the device has led to Online lobbies full of screaming kids, making quest multiplayer a nightmare roulette for anyone not playing with a regular group.

[Asura]

It's an interesting take to say it's damaging the market, as a lot of PCVR players say the exact same thing about the Quest. It opened up a market up to cheap throw away apps and experiences in a rush to the bottom type scenario in a very similar to what we have seen on the iOS and Android stores

I get that some PCVR players feel this way. But regardless of what you think about that market, the Quest did open it up.

[Lebowski]

If that market is Flappy bird and Candy Crush you can keep it

[wakka]

If you like VR, I think you have to root for every VR platform. Anything that increases the viability for developers is a good thing, IMO.

I've just googled the numbers and if it was up to Sony alone, it looks like VR would be six feet under already.

Have a look at this:

https://www.roadtovr.com/quest-psvr-2-unit-sales-holiday-2023/

This article shows that between Nov 16th and Jan 16th 320k Quests (2 or 3 or, I guess, Pro) were sold on Amazon, while PSVR2 moved just over 10k units in the same time.

That's a 30:1 ratio.

They aren't selling enough units for the platform to be remotely viable for developers to invest in. At this point, a PSVR2 port is a 'nice to have' for Quest developers, at best (unless they receive money from Sony to port it).

Until I googled this I didn't realise how poorly the system was doing, and believe I'm not revelling in it - I think it's a real shame, as PSVR2 has so much potential to deliver great visuals by using the PS5's hardware (also 'console wars' crap among grown adults drives me up the ****ing wall).

[fuse]

This does not sound good.

[Neon Ignition]

To me it feels like had Quest not been a thing then the state of PCVR would have been much worse than it is rather than Quest has done significant harm to that market. Whilst it sets a lower tech bar and companies will chase popular selling types on it PC was never going to be the emergent market for VR. Quest has been instrumental in getting VR as far as it's come and in creating a space where affordable off the shelf experiences can exist.

Without it I don't think PCVR would be any different with the exception that the level of available software would be a drought by now because the majority of studios making titles would have been forced to close up or pivot out of the space without it. I think it's very telling that we had one or two titles like Alyx and pretty much the entire industry thought 'I'm not touching that investment'.

Very small numbers buy things like flight sticks, arcade sticks etc but there's a consistent niche there and that seems to be where VR is headed. Once Quest goes down I kind of suspect it will take down most of those around it with them whether that be games developers or rival headset makers and it will be a niche peripheral that enthusiasts enjoy moving forward. Particularly as big gaming shifts and trends are typically set by the console space and if things are actually very slow with PSVR2 and the same level of sales that the original enjoyed can't be recreated this gen, then it's very hard to imagine Sony will plow on with PSVR3 next gen which will close the door on VR outside of Quest and PCVR. It's been 7 years since PSVR launched and it's gone through waves, often timed with new hardware. If I were to Mystic Meg it? 2030. "Peak era" for VR to end around then when this gen is a year or two behind us and we're on Quest 5 or so and broader consumers have entirely moved on, then it will really start to depend on PCVR to maintain itself on small releases, mods etc

[huxley]

This does not sound good.

It looks like the studios in some pretty serious trouble

https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/people-can-fly-reportedly-cuts-30-devs-as-scope-of-square-enix-game-shrinks/

[Neon Ignition]

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[MartyG]

It has to be something like that. Because the problem isn't technical. Sure, PSVR1 games won't "just run" on the PSVR2 because the interface paradigm is different, but this is far from an insurmountable problem.

I'd not in any way be surprised if an engineer there doesn't already have a working solution. It's just positional data requiring a translation layer - this is why you use interfaces in your APIs.

I suspect you're right and the idea was to sell upgrades/remakes - it wasn't possible to have rumble in the PS3 pads after all.

[Lebowski]

I'd not in any way be surprised if an engineer there doesn't already have a working solution. It's just positional data requiring a translation layer - this is why you use interfaces in your APIs.

I suspect you're right and the idea was to sell upgrades/remakes - it wasn't possible to have rumble in the PS3 pads after all.

Rec Room devs saying it's not going to bring the game to PSVR2 as it's quite a bit of work and not economicaly viable.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PSVR/comments/19ed42b/recroom_has_no_plans_to_come_to_the_psvr2_due_to/

Makes me think Sony may have shot themselves in the foot if the psvr2 is tricky to port too

[wakka]

Ouch. Yeah, that's not good. By the way, I realised that my post about the sales figures of PSVR2 was a repost and had been discussed on the previous page already. Sorry about that.

The problem with PSVR2 is the only way it has a hope of being saved and achieving some level of success is by investment - new first party games, ports of old first party games, funding ports of Quest and PCVR titles, etc.

But that investment would be a huge gamble based on its, honestly, pretty catastrophic performance so far. It's hard to see Sony committing to it when they would almost certainly be better served putting that cash into software and marketing for the PS5.

The conversation internally is probably more about what the bare minimum of investment they can get away with without causing an outcry among buyers is.

Honestly it's a real bummer.

[Neon Ignition]

Honestly, I saw that story and it begs all sorts of questions around the resources and costs of releasing on PSVR2. In a scenario where Sony doesn't support the headset the default expectation is that it becomes a route into playing Quest and PCVR ports but the prospect that those will dry up too because it isn't worth their effort to port them...

[wakka]

Yeah, that's where it enters a terminal spiral.

I think the initial investment in R&D and marketing has to be written off at this point and they are probably more at the stage of damage control in terms of PR. We all know how virulent the gaming community can get if they start to feel wronged and it snowballs into mass outrage.

I would love to see some new software for it that at least keeps it meaningfully ticking over for buyers. I think it's only fair - and the wisest move from a PR perspective - considering the cost and that 100% of buyers are clearly pretty loyal PlayStation customers, having dropped over a grand on hardware alone this gen.