Xbox - Series S/X: Thread 01

[Team Andromeda]

Thinking hypothetically, let's say a developer has the idea for a game that uses Ray Tracing to move beams of light around and solve puzzles. It's not something that could be made on the One so they don't bother to make it. It could be the next Tetris but because it doesn't work in the One MS don't give a ****. It's limiting to developers to keep one foot in the past for a year or more.

Speaking 'hypothetically' any game can be made to work on a vastly less powerful system. I mean we had G-Loc on a GameGear or Mortal Kombat on a Game Boy Virtual Fighter II on a Saturn Ect...

[Neon Ignition]

Yep, it's good as a practical decision but utter nightmare-fest from a marketing angle. Whilst cross gen titles are commonplace it's the big hitter exclusives that do the heavy lifting on new gen hardware sales. Everyone with an XBO can fist pump the air that they can play Hellblade 2, Forza 8 or Halo Infinite without shelling out for a new system. Most will also fist pump that they now only have a pressing need to buy one next gen system this November and it's not green themed...

[Team Andromeda]

Given the release dates will be the same I don't see the issue at all, much less as you only need to get the title once .
There will no doubt be a night and day diffrence between the Series X and One S version of Halo Infinite

I would imagine it be like seeing Streets Of Rage II running on a Mega Drive compared to the Master System

[Digfox]

Re the jump to solid state, MS probably wont make (as much of a deal) about this jump on console as they are used to this on pc, Sony will probably again jump on this marketing wise.

I do wonder if Sony have something more substantial or at the very least an advantage in the interface even though NVMe/PCI-E/SSD tech isn't unique. The comment below from Mike Ybarra might have been taken out of context but I have visions of proprietary Sony drives for PS5.

Mike Ybarra: PS5 could have better I/O than anything the PC has ever seen

[Cassius_Smoke]

I do wonder if Sony have something more substantial or at the very least an advantage in the interface even though NVMe/PCI-E/SSD tech isn't unique. The comment below from Mike Ybarra might have been taken out of context but I have visions of proprietary Sony drives for PS5.

That's a point. No doubt MS will use Windows as a base code for its I/O like the One does, it makes financial sense and it links up with its PC heritage. However, it might not make it the best way to get the most out of it. Unlike Sony which has no ties and can build code from the ground up to get the best out of the system. I don't doubt there will be load speed comparison videos after launch and Sony may have the edge.

[Neon Ignition]

PC's showcase the issues with scalable software thinking on it more. Say I play GTA5 on a low end system vs a high end one the difference is obvious which is what MS are leaning on. However, the same is the case of say RDR but playing it on a much superior hardware doesn't make it run like RDR2. There's a fundamental difference between a game designed to account for old hardware and one that isn't. Many a game looks great on current top end PC GPUs but a key factor in that is that they're designed to a very outdated base. A Sony made early next gen only game is going to be very clearly and potentially starkly superior looking to a cross gen XSX game because the faithful old XBO will be a millstone around the dev teams neck. It's similar to how an XBX looks so much better than an XBO, but a next gen experience it is not.

It cements XSX as an iterative console too easily, a continuation of the XBO line, and renders any talk of an Xbox Series S entry line obsolete because that's a role now literally what the XBO and XSX are which anyone who cares will already have under their TV.

Genuinely, hats off, it's such a Game Pass move as it's massively in favour of consumers who want MS's games because they can either pick up a second hand XBO for £80 and play Halo Infinite etc for likely £7 or spend upward of £600 to play the same game in a higher resolution and sharper effects. Despite loving the bells and whistles I know which I'd pick and it's a genuine steal - phenomonal value that no other company offers.

It also makes XSX redundant to me, more so than being a PC owner already did. If I want to play Xbox titles at their best I can buy an Xbox Series X. If I want to play true built for next gen hardware AAA titles I need a Playstation 5.

Those last two titles pretty much sum up how next-gen is going to go for MS.

[wakka]

Yeah, spot on. I can’t see how having to make sure every game will run on console hardware from 2013 won’t hold back XSX developers.

On an emotional level, it also makes the new console less exciting to me. It’s a clear declaration that this is very much an iterative improvement - and it makes that much harder to justify the outlay. Better graphics and more effects are nice, but do I want to spend £400 to get them? Or would I rather play the same game on my current hardware using Game Pass? Realistically it’s the former.

Edit: latter! I meant latter!

[CMcK]

Has the present generation of consoles offered any genuinley new gaming experiences that couldn't have been achieved on the previous generation? PSVR aside obviously.
I can't see the first year of the next gen being held back by games working on older systems. Games marketing is all about pretty pictures and XSX and PS5 will have the prettiest versions of multi generation titles by far.

[Leon Retro]

With the PS4 Pro and Xbox One X, we saw some developers offering a 60fps option. So I think that has probably created more awareness for 60fps amongst all sorts of gamers, so there should now be the expectation that modern games should run at 60fps. It will hopefully mean that devs won't opt for 30fps on consoles, and 60fps will be the standard next gen. I hope so.

It might not seem like a big thing to PC gamers, but console gamers have suffered with 30fps for too long, and it really needs to end next gen. I don't want any games to run at 30fps.

[Cassius_Smoke]

Has the present generation of consoles offered any genuinley new gaming experiences that couldn't have been achieved on the previous generation? PSVR aside obviously.
I can't see the first year of the next gen being held back by games working on older systems. Games marketing is all about pretty pictures and XSX and PS5 will have the prettiest versions of multi generation titles by far.

It's more than just face value stuff. It's the intrinsic calculations that the ps4/one can perform over the 360. If you take Forza for example, the way the tires grip the road and act are all calculated on the fly. The One can not only perform those calculations quicker but also perform more of them, offering a more responsive and satisfying experience over the 360. It's these little things that add up. If you have to build a game knowing you are also catering for the previous generation, you may not bother adding more calculations so it works, but it also hampers the next gen systems version.

[Neon Ignition]

It's why 60fps will never happen as a standard on the next-gen systems. To deliver the desired advancements on physics, AI, geometry, effects etc that people want there has to be a cost and 60fps is the first thing to go. The XBO has played a key role in allowing PC users to enjoy 60fps for so many years because so many games are designed with that need to service such a power weak format in mind.

I had a look back and in terms of common use PC gamers were still knocking around DDR2/3 RAM, GPU's with 1-2GB RAM, GTX600 series as mid-range gaming set ups. This is the era that Xbox exclusives will still be designed as a baseline for the next 2 years at least which is why XSX and PC's will run them so well. That's not counting how outdated XBO and PS4 parts were even back in 2013.

In theory the next-gen consoles should finally be a point where things step forward, where PC GPU's have to aggressively advance again instead of getting fluff RTX updates because the software demands mean players are no longer able to Ultra everything for a few years. Sony's kept its first party games announcements quiet for a long time now too so I don't think it'll be long into PS5 till they release the first strike on XSX either.

[wakka]

Yeah, there deffo won’t be 60fps standard and there never will be. They will always choose to prioritise effects and graphics and to hit 30 as a consequence, except for in a select few games like Mario and CoD.

[Team Andromeda]

Has the present generation of consoles offered any genuinley new gaming experiences that couldn't have been achieved on the previous generation? PSVR aside obviously.

I felt very much the same for the 16-bit Generation. Not that it really mattered it was nice to have better looking 2D and 3D games.

[Team Andromeda]

Yeah, spot on. I can’t see how having to make sure every game will run on console hardware from 2013 won’t hold back XSX developers.

On an emotional level, it also makes the new console less exciting to me. It’s a clear declaration that this is very much an iterative improvement - and it makes that much harder to justify the outlay. Better graphics and more effects are nice, but do I want to spend £400 to get them? Or would I rather play the same game on my current hardware using Game Pass? Realistically it’s the former.

For the 1st year, I don't see MS making more than about 3 to 4 games tops. I doubt any of their major titles will really be affected and by that I mean the ones that have only started production for the Series X. Not games like Halo Or Forza that have been in production for 3/4 years or more; When they were starting pre-production even the One X wasn't out.

And yes I would want to spend £450 to get the best graphics and sound, even if its same game. I loved my Master System but I would rather play Golden Axe, Ghost N Ghouls, Strider on the Mega Drive to the Master system versions. When its a night and day difference in just visuals alone

[Cassius_Smoke]

I am excited to see next gen though. Forza horizon looks pretty real now, you throw more polygons and Ray Tracing at it and it should look absolutely staggering.