Xbox - Series S/X: Thread 01

[charlesr]

Guess this will all slip substantially now.

[charlesr]

Might the specs change if it slips far enough....

[Brad]

What... 13 teraflops!!? Wtf!

[Digfox]

Might the specs change if it slips far enough....

No. Maybe limited supply, higher RRP or delayed launch. But at the moment no news or any details on delays due to Corona virus for either new console. Or indeed if any games will be delayed.

We have seen Nintendo stock is getting low on their Switch though.

[Cassius_Smoke]

Tell you what, I'd snatch up either new console right now.

[Neon Ignition]

I won't have it long but sucker for an offer and an XOX arrived today lol

[wakka]

I've actually been considering upgrading my S to an X with the new offers. Although now GAME stores are (rightly) shut, I won't be able to trade in against one.

Kinda feels silly with the new machines out in about 7 or 8 months though! Plus my TV is only 1080p SDR.

[EvilBoris]

Kinect specifics aside, I think this is where it comes down to your definition of 'custom' but certainly specifically with regards to games I'd understood Dolby Atmos for Headphone on PC and Xbox One is a software wrapper where the end result is upmixing which produces a sound like Dolby Atmos rather than being specific hardware encoded positional audio.

We aren't talking about Series X in this specific conversation (more about why everyone believes Sony leads with regards to PS5 audio). It feels clear that there will be a bigger leap in audio with XSX and PS5 (particularly where we know more about the latter atm). Digital Foundry made this very point when talking about the PS5. The leap in audio is going to be exponentially bigger for these new machines compared to previous generations.

Dolby Atmos and Windows Sonic either use the Atmos Audio tracks and then map it to the virtualised 7.1.4 speaker setup that matches the mastering.

For games, games are produced using the Windows Spatial Audio APIs, typically a 7.1.4.4 speaker setup is used as the "bed" audio, with those being positioned around the user using either the Dolby/Sonic HRTF (encoded in realtime by the Xbox's audio chip) ,there is then 16 other audio channels that can be positioned in the same way, or dynamic audio objects.

The PS5 will now be able to do the same thing, but it has a greater processor than Xbox One does, so the 32 object limit can be much larger.
Xbox Series X has a fancy new audio processor too, which is also hooked up to some new software and APIs MS has developed
Both machines have now got the audio power to calculate better audio, but also be able to position it better in the user's head.

Basically people aren't aware that the Xbox One already does a bunch of the stuff the PS5 is going to be able to do, which should hopefully mean that developers are more inclined to make the effort.

[Digfox]

Ta [MENTION=2447]EvilBoris[/MENTION]

Regarding the 32 limit on objects (which John Linneman referenced in the PS5 analysis) apparently that isn't the case with Dolby Atmos. Although I'm not 100% sure if this response relates to the upmixing on Dolby Atmos for Headphones.

As you say developers utilising unique systems strengths is an issue, as most of this is moot with the current consoles because very few games support Dolby Atmos so will just switch back to uncompressed stereo or 5.1. And hence why audio is basically the same irrespective of whether the game is on Xbox One or PS4.

[EvilBoris]

Ta [MENTION=2447]EvilBoris[/MENTION]

Regarding the 32 limit on objects (which John Linneman referenced in the PS5 analysis) apparently that isn't the case with Dolby Atmos. Although I'm not 100% sure if this response relates to the upmixing on Dolby Atmos for Headphones.


As you say developers utilising unique systems strengths is an issue, as most of this is moot with the current consoles because very few games support Dolby Atmos so will just switch back to uncompressed stereo or 5.1. And hence why audio is basically the same irrespective of whether the game is on Xbox One or PS4.

The limit is there for the Windows Spatial API, Dolby Atmos itself allows for over 128 channels/objects. Windows sonic is 112
I think it’s a soft limit to stop CPU being sucked up on PC

[CMcK]

Basically people aren't aware that the Xbox One already does a bunch of the stuff the PS5 is going to be able to do, which should hopefully mean that developers are more inclined to make the effort.

People need to hear Gears 5 with its Atmos support via headphones it’s very impressive. The sound stage is wide and surprisingly deep when it needs to be. The sense of position is excellent too. As a preview of things to come it’s pretty exciting.

EvilBoris what’s your take on the ML HDR implementation on XsX? Looks like a great feature to have especially if it’s at no cost to performance.

[EvilBoris]

People need to hear Gears 5 with its Atmos support via headphones it’s very impressive. The sound stage is wide and surprisingly deep when it needs to be. The sense of position is excellent too. As a preview of things to come it’s pretty exciting.

EvilBoris what’s your take on the ML HDR implementation on XsX? Looks like a great feature to have especially if it’s at no cost to performance.

I think it’s a neat feature to have, Gears 5 uses a simple version of it to handle it’s HDR, so if that is any indication of how it will look I’m all in.
Microsoft’s ATG group is really doing some crazy things.

I think it’s been trained with ML, I don’t think that it’s doing anything in real-time beyond inversing the SDR tonemap and then redoing it for HDR.

[Digfox]

Basically people aren't aware that the Xbox One already does a bunch of the stuff the PS5 is going to be able to do, which should hopefully mean that developers are more inclined to make the effort.

Sorry to raise audio again (and the long post), but over the last few years I’ve really got into audio and headphones, particularly where videogames are concerned. There were a few points still bothering me, so I’ve spent way too much time trying to firstly look into detail at the specs of the PS4 and Xbox One with regards to audio. Also secondly testing out Dolby Atmos myself tonight for a few hours.

Finding details on the PS4 and Xbox One seems to be really difficult when trawling through search engines. However a number of times it’s been mentioned here the XBO is doing more on the audio side (away from Kinect) and I’m still not sure that is accurate given how similar they are (hence quoting [MENTION=2447]EvilBoris[/MENTION]).

- Both PS4 and XBO support positional audio.
- Games like Gears 4 and 5 get praised for their Atmos support. However those that have tried it equally praise Drakes 4 and Days Gone for their positional audio support.
- Both PS4 and XBO use an audio block within the Jaguar APU for processing.

-----

Anyway I tested Dolby Atmos, Dolby Digital and Stereo on a few games across PC and Xbox One X. I played The Division 2 and Rim of the World (via Netflix). Both support Dolby Atmos. My setup was using various headphones (DT 990 Pros, AKG K702/K712 and K361s) either via the Creative Soundblaster X7 with or without it's SBX processing switched off (switched off for Atmos) and via the controller. I have tried it before but dismissed it, so wanted to review again.

- Dolby Atmos for Headphone is really impressive.
- However against Dolby Digital with Creative’s SBX processing the difference is negligible.
- With Atmos the sound is slightly more detailed in terms of what you can hear (i.e. hearing more stones land on the ground), however the sound is slightly more muddy. Impressive soundstage.
- Dolby Digital is clearer with slightly larger soundstage. Positional cues are also more accurate.
- Dolby Digital and SBX on the Sound Blaster X7 provide just as much vertical height.
- Creative’s SBX is still class leading imo. Of all the various hardware or software virtual surround I’ve tried they (Creative) still have the best positional audio solutions for headphones.

The biggest impact on the quality and immersiveness on the sound is the headphones, DAC and AMP. Virtually all headphones come alive when amped. Going through the controller with Dolby Atmos and the choice of headphones is much reduced.

And that’s where I think Sony (maybe Microsoft too) could have a game changer. If they can get developers to support it and make it work across any audio setup. I might not need a separate external processor (the DAC) as the PS5 will be good enough to take care of the positional audio and you just need something for the AMP, Microphone and speaker parts.

[Team Andromeda]

Gears IV is the most impressive use of sound this gen IMO. In Dolby Atmos it's incredible. The new Call of Duty is really good too

[Brad]

Farpoint VR had best use of audio, of what I’ve played. Do you need a special amp to get Atmos sound through headphones?