Xbox Series S/X: Thread 02

[Cassius_Smoke]

He might want it - but unless his paper round money has increased substantially, he's not going to get it. There's a whopping difference between £20 a month and £600 up front.

Where has £600 come from?

What if dougle already has a PS4 with fortnite and all his buds play on a PS4. His character and saves all carry across to the PS5, but jumping to the Xbox means starting again.

[dataDave]

This is why I'm so glad I'm not tied to any ecosystem, and why I'm partly glad Nintendo don't have one at all. It's easy for me to pick a different machine whenever I feel without worrying about friends lists or losing games and save data.

It's definitely a consideration for everyone else.

[fishbowlhead]

Where has £600 come from?

What if dougle already has a PS4 with fortnite and all his buds play on a PS4. His character and saves all carry across to the PS5, but jumping to the Xbox means starting again.

Thats the other side. People very rarely switch ecosystems now and start all over. Even if exclusives weren’t a factor, would i give up all my PSN history and back purchases? Nope.

[MartyG]

My general point is the Series S is clearly aimed at the casual, especially with its monthly All Access offering, it's not something that's for the sort of discerning audience us folk here at Bordersdown are.

Series S with its paultry 512GB and no UHD-BluRay drive? Only 4TFs, no exclusives? Be gone inferior console - I don't want a Doris console, I want the gold plated Saville Row with all the teraflopness.

[MartyG]

Where has £600 come from?

What if dougle already has a PS4 with fortnite and all his buds play on a PS4. His character and saves all carry across to the PS5, but jumping to the Xbox means starting again.

Fornite is cross platform and Doris still doesn't have more than £20 a month to spare to give to Dougal

[QualityChimp]

[dvdx2]

Limiting one console to 1440p when most new consumer TVs sold are probably 4k going forward, seems a really bizarre thing to do tbh, daft really.

[Atticus]

My boys both have xbox ones in their rooms along with 1080p tvs (that tv spec isn't going to change any time soon). They pretty much play digital content 100% If either needed a new MS console for whatever reason it's unlikely we could justify new Series X consoles for them given their set-ups and cost of entry ... the Series S though would be a no-brainer.

With a little more clarity it seems MS have covered the bases of two very different core users.

[nonny]

I don't think MS minds the Series S sales eating into the Series X sales... Just like Sony won't mind if you get the digital PS5 or the full fat model.

Once you're in the ecosystem they expect you'll stay awhile and it's software where they make the most revenue.

Sony has exclusives which is it's core strength, and Microsoft has Game Pass as it current strength with hopefully some decent exclusives coming over the next few years.

I don't see anyone who has been in the PS ecosystem this generation thinking this will change their opinion on their main platform of choice, but it might convince a few to pick up a Series S as a second choice later on for the odd few games they can't get on PlayStation. Unless of course that game is also on PC and you have a rig to run it... Either way there is choice and that's good.

With the All Access stuff. I don't see the Series S being £20 a month but it might be close to it. The One X is currently £21.99 so it'll probably just replace that option entirely.

Still with game pass ultimate included its a crazy deal to anyone looking at a new console for Xmas when money is tight and it includes more games then the little 512gb SSD can hold as well. Certainly it's aimed for the casuals but it remains to be seen whether brand loyalty for the different ecosystems diminishes that appeal.

My view is they've certainly got the price right. Looks wise it's more a 7/10.

[nonny]

Limiting one console to 1440p when most new consumer TVs sold are probably 4k going forward, seems a really bizarre thing to do tbh, daft really.

It still supports 4K though. It just reaches that resolution by upscaling 1440p.

It's not going to be true 4K but that doesn't mean it's not compatible with new TVs...

[CMcK]

I wouldnt jump in on it just yet. Not without some more information. At that price there has to be some other considerations then the SSD size.

There’s a lot of cost savings with the Series S which have helped attain the low price point. Much smaller APU, less power draw so a smaller power supply. Less cooling required so a smaller and lighter cooling arrangement. No UHD disc drive, less flash for the smaller SSD and a much smaller case. Loads of space and weight saved which helps with less packaging and reduced transport costs. Plus economies of scale with MS using the Series X APU in their cloud severs they’ll have been able to negotiate a good price on wafers from TSMC who make the Xbox chips. And the smaller Series S APU should have a better yield rate so less wasted dies.
The fact it’s a digital only console will have been factored into the price too with healthy future profits on game purchases and no second hand market.

[MartyG]

With the All Access stuff. I don't see the Series S being £20 a month but it might be close to it. The One X is currently £21.99 so it'll probably just replace that option entirely.

The US price is $24.99 - the conversion of Xbox Series S $ -> £ was 0.8361, $24.99 * .8361 works out at £20.89 - also One X retails at £350 compared to £250 on Microsoft's store, however the One S is at £250 - if anything, the All Access will be at the One S price, rather than the current One X price, which is, you guessed it, £20

[nonny]

The US price is $24.99 - the conversion of Xbox Series S $ -> £ was 0.8361, $24.99 * .8361 works out at £20.89 - also One X retails at £350 compared to £250 on Microsoft's store, however the One S is at £250 - if anything, the All Access will be at the One S price, rather than the current One X price, which is, you guessed it, £20

Interesting... I stand corrected. If it's £20 a month that's an absolute bargain

[Neon Ignition]

Here's the thing though, in theory say you have a kid who has a One S and plays Fortnite and FIFA in his room all the time, as a parent you're going to look at the Series S and think that you're going to be buying them a new system to continue doing the exact thing they already do assuming you look into what the systems offer. Remember, the principle here is that the broadly uninformed parent couldn't give a rats ass about resolutions so their kid has access to exactly the same content, exactly the same future content, exactly the same sub offers etc without spending an extra penny right now (that's discounting that someone looking for a budget way to experience Fortnite etc on Xbox would still have the One X now as a better option) and because budget strapped little timmy likely won't be getting a 1440p supporting tv to go with his new machine.

There's the future proofing argument but essentially the cost conscious would be better off waiting a year or two and saving money in the long run.

And then there's the sales pitch that led to that moment. We're expected to be sold on the idea that the Series X is the best hardware, but also that the Series S's only difference in performance will be resolution? So millions of core gamers are expected to pay 2x the amount for a Series X purely to run 2160p instead of 1440p? And we're expected to look at this argument and think that PS5 in any way has cause for concern because it's 10Tflp? It renders the discussion about system power completely and utterly redundant and instead makes it about price which is absolutely fine but in doing so it effectively means the Series X is doomed at retail because it's a largely redundant device delivering too little for too much that can be had for much less money.

And also, let's be honest, kids don't ask their parents at Xmas whether they can a new games machine and when asked which one respond "any will do, I'm not fussy". The number of kids going next-gen based primarily on the ability to continue playing games like Minecraft, Fortnite etc and mithering for an Xbox this year will be ones already playing them on Xbox One and that won't be a sea of people given the lame rate of sales XBO has had for several years now and how proportionately low Game Pass subs are to systems sold and XBL accounts that are open. For seven years their mates have all been largely been playing these games on PS4, PS5 will be the default move for them and they'll ask for that system to their poor mithered parents because the very last thing they'll think of is a £249.99 price tag unless it's to bully the kid at school for being from a poor family because he's got the "cheap, rubbish" option when his mates have Series X's and PS5.

I mean all this is moot because lost in the discussion is the real reason why the beleaguered parent won't buy a Series S regardless of price.

The Nintendo Switch

It does all that is being talked about and it utterly and completely dominates the casual, youth and mass market spaces. It's what will be asked for, it's what parents who are battered by TV ads on kids shows will think of and it's what supplies content for that audience. Xbox has absolutely nothing to offer the casual gamer that Switch doesn't already cover in a much more appealing and robust way and the Switch is peaking, not near end of life so its strangehold of sales isn't going anywhere. That leaves more informed buyers and for them the message has been clear all along when it comes to Xbox sales:

-Low price doesn't matter, One S covered this and has lagged behind its rivals by a huge margin all its life
-Top performance and multi-platform performance doesn't matter, One X nailed every sales pitch Series S and X are relying on and world shrugged
-Game Pass doesn't support a platform

10m users in a few years is great, and the service is great. Microsoft is better off for it existing but Xbox One never shifted gear because of it. Game Pass gives you access to hundreds of games but the context of those games is key. Bar odd exceptions they're old games, or ones most wouldn't even acknowledge if they weren't already subbed and stumbled across them. The first party titles are the key hook but they didn't shift enough hardware units for MS to begin with, they simply don't have the required level of appeal to them to compete at their rivals levels. Game Pass has been and remains, a delicious and unforgettable side dish, it's not the main meal which is missing in action.

I know this is all an awful lot of downer points so I'll simply and crisply add:

Whilst I think it's design is unnecessarily ugly, the Series S is undoubtedly a great price and say you were already an Xbox player who needed a system for another room or some context relevant situation I can see an appeal now that its price is set as being at a good level. Same if you haven't been into the Xbox ecosystem and fancied it, the Series S with Game Pass could be a good option to sit alongside your primary system. It's not a case that it's without merit, just that the sales pitch is lacking.


I have an Xbox. It plays many past games and will play the next-gen games Microsoft releases in the coming years, it was cheap too and I get 60fps in most of their first party games. Game Pass is great too and I bought it via Access so it only costs me so much per month and I can upgrade it if I want at a later date - which Xbox model am I describing?

The answer is, all of them as it doesn't matter. No-one's cared for years now and they still won't for years more. The critical thing here is that MS has engineered great hardware but changed pretty much nothing else in terms of branding, sales pitch and the single most decisive factor - content.

GTAV, Fortnite, Call of Duty, Animal Crossing, Mario, Spider-Man, Minecraft, Apec Legends, COD Warzone, PUBG, Destiny 2 etc

Where in that is a casual gamer going to go, "Xbox is clearly the best option for me to access these games"?. Truth is, most casuals won't even be aware the Series S is a thing so behind is the social media footprint Series S and X have compared to the rival systems.

Here's what I think will actually in practice be the most common situation:
The vast majority of PS5 intended buyers won't be swayed. A chunk of people saving up for a Series X will suddenly now be thinking that they can get a Series S for half the price and if they can find an extra £100 they can probably buy a PS5 as well.

Yes, potentially a scenario where Series S contributes to PS5 sales without increasing Xbox ones. Then in the new year sales still stall.

And yes, MS absolutely do care and it isn't all about Game Pass eco-system numbers. Every facet of the Series S and X's designs screams "We're obssessed with our rival Sony"

[Neon Ignition]

Pushing Access from and centre, best move at last rather than ensuring few know it exists like previously