Nintendo Switch: Thread 09

[dataDave]

We've already seen a switch that doesn't switch in the lite model. I think now I'd like to see either a dock that has extra juice for TV mode or just a dedicated TV console outright.

They could make a tiny SwitchCube. £130 and no more powerful than the existing Switch. It just doesn't have a screen.

I guess there's a lot more profit in selling something with a screen.

[Neon Ignition]

Looking back though the traditional console model is something that was well within their means and would have been better for them as a business. As big as Switch is there's an insane amoubt of money Nintendo is leaving on the table via digital revenue and unsupported franchises whether their own or third party. The trouble is they always mark themselves out which is a gamble every generation. However every generation they also fail to provide reasons not to cobsider their rivals either. Whereas Sony and to an extent MS have managed to grow brand loyalty that crosses generations and has seen each successive system maintain a level of consistent audience and support, Nintendo dice rolls every generation. Sometimes they roll a Switch or a Wii, otherwise a WiiU or a Gamecube/N64.

Ultimately, as conservative in hardware as Nintendo can seem they're the riskiest business of the three each generation shift. Nintendo can't assume that hardly any of the Switch's userbase will transition to Switch 2 based on its own history so playing to essentially a gimmick isn't in practice that amazing a strategy. Given the time and opportunity they've squandered the best move they could have is to literally slap a '2' on the next system and try to lean into their current advantages. That means hardware compromises though so 4K60fps or well performing true PS5/XSX standard ports are going to be off the table.

[cutmymilk]

Nintendo have somehow made a cartridge console with seemingly thousands of games. What is the deal with that? It used to cost publishers a lot to license the carts. With the limited edition games etc in their hundreds across several companies they must have made it easy and cheap to publish these games.

[wakka]

Looking back though the traditional console model is something that was well within their means and would have been better for them as a business. As big as Switch is there's an insane amoubt of money Nintendo is leaving on the table via digital revenue and unsupported franchises whether their own or third party. The trouble is they always mark themselves out which is a gamble every generation. However every generation they also fail to provide reasons not to cobsider their rivals either. Whereas Sony and to an extent MS have managed to grow brand loyalty that crosses generations and has seen each successive system maintain a level of consistent audience and support, Nintendo dice rolls every generation. Sometimes they roll a Switch or a Wii, otherwise a WiiU or a Gamecube/N64.

Ultimately, as conservative in hardware as Nintendo can seem they're the riskiest business of the three each generation shift. Nintendo can't assume that hardly any of the Switch's userbase will transition to Switch 2 based on its own history so playing to essentially a gimmick isn't in practice that amazing a strategy. Given the time and opportunity they've squandered the best move they could have is to literally slap a '2' on the next system and try to lean into their current advantages. That means hardware compromises though so 4K60fps or well performing true PS5/XSX standard ports are going to be off the table.

I think Nintendo have tons of room to improve in both how well they leverage and monetise franchises, and how well they retain customers - but I don't think a more traditional console design is at all required for them to progress in these areas.

Putting aside the leveraging and monetising of franchises and instead focusing purely on the platform as a whole, here are the three primary attributes which I think make MS and Sony platforms sticky enough to retain users:

- The ability to retain a consistent library of purchased and free games across generations
- Robust multiplayer systems and friends lists (so people go where their friends go)
- A consistent user account system with achievements/gamerpoints/etc

Nintendo should absolutely work on improving significantly in all three of the above areas to make their platform stickier moving forward. But I don't think any of these attributes require them to make their own PSBox. It's quite possible for them to do it with an entirely different type of design. And I think, actually, they're much better off that way.

[Golgo]

- The ability to retain a consistent library of purchased and free games across generations
- Robust multiplayer systems and friends lists (so people go where their friends go)
- A consistent user account system with achievements/gamerpoints/etc

I agree with this. It's kind of weird how they set the foundations of a very novel and attractive and 'Nintendo'-like solution to this with Miiverse, and then just pulled the plug.

[Dogg Thang]

Got to be honest, after all this time, after all these years and different systems, I find it mad that we still have conversations about whether Nintendo should just do what the PS or XBox is doing. We already have those systems and they are nigh-on interchangeable. We don't need another. I'd rather the little yellow crank machine than another Assassin's Creed box. But also it should be very clear going all the way back to the DS that Nintendo are very firmly in the business of hardware. Their own hardware. It may not always work. And yeah, they feel decades behind in some areas (ahem, account systems). But they are at least doing their own thing and it's usually interesting.

[Asura]

Bringing "something different" to the table isn't an excuse for half-baked gimmicks and compromised sub-par hardware that Nintendo consistently come with these days, no matter how good the games are.

I've said it before, I'll say it again and I'll keep on saying it: A true Nintendo equivalent to modern PS and XBOX hardware would easily be competitive if they would only bloody do it properly and not half-arse it with corner-cutting and compromise like they always do. They have the means to be able to do it and, decades deep into the industry, they should be doing it. It just isn't true to pretend otherwise.

Also wouldn't interest me half as much as the Switch has. Not saying it'd be bad but I wouldn't be fussed.

[Cassius_Smoke]

I'm fine with Nintendo doing what they do. It's usually a companion console to the Xbox or PS.
My only concerns are that it's not exactly future proof, and now Xbox and ps5 are out it'll get fewer ports of 3rd party games, because it just can't run them.
Second, their first party games aren't that exciting for me.

[Golgo]

Anyway, stop bickering you scrubs, sort your priorities, and get onto Super Smash Bros Ultimate and get your No More Heroes III spirits. I've nabbed 2 out of 3, Travis and FU.

[Nu-Eclipse]

RTX2070 boxes, more like with barely any profit margin (if not sold at a loss).

A £500 RTX3070 box is not going to sell another 30M units of Mario Kart 8. That's all they care about because they concentrate on being as profitable a business as possible.

I'm sure they have a team of analysts that work on what's going to be a good idea or not, as opposed to just winging it by reading what people think on forums.

Okay. Right ya are. Sure thing, Nintendo Defense Force General.

[Nu-Eclipse]

- The ability to retain a consistent library of purchased and free games across generations
- Robust multiplayer systems and friends lists (so people go where their friends go)
- A consistent user account system with achievements/gamerpoints/etc

The basics. Things Nintendo STILL cannot quite get right, long after comparative upstarts like Sony and MS nailed it.

[Nu-Eclipse]

Also wouldn't interest me half as much as the Switch has. Not saying it'd be bad but I wouldn't be fussed.

I genuinely suspect that you and others who feel this way would be in the minority.

I think that a lot of gamers who Nintendo have lost to Sony and MS hardware would be encouraged to look at Nintendo again if they did proper console hardware again and properly so.

I just find the logic of some gamers on this to be incredibly weird. Why wouldn't anybody who loved Nintendo gaming want them to build quality high-end hardware to go with their games?? It seems like people want them to continue building janky Nvidia Shield derivatives and I find that wild.

[Neon Ignition]

Yep, I'd say my angle is less that Nintendo should be doing a PS5/XSX and more that they should have been doing that all along. They're generations too late and way behind the game now to weigh in on that battle. Had they done it in the first place and taken the direction of the market seriously then they wouldn't need the 'be different' gamble at all and MS would have been squeezed out years ago.

The thing is, other than picking up my Switch and going outside with it as a handheld it's one of the most traditional systems they've made in years. BOTW, Splatoon, Mario Kart, Mario Odyssey, Fire Emblem, Pokemon - other than them still being WiiU era in visuals there's absolutely nothing special or unique about any of them from a hardware perspective. So, if Nintendo made a powerful console it wouldn't affect their own games design or popularity at all, it would just mean third parties could bring all their current new titles to it and therefore reduce the need to own anything else to begin with.

They've missed that advantage though, it's harder to shill hardware revisions on consoles than it is handhelds. So they'll never alter direction now and everyone will be in for the ride each time on if their new system sells 10m or 100m.

I kind of wish they'd sell around 50m or something, well enough to do well but not so well that they let their software output go to **** out of laziness like they did with Wii and as Switch is starting to slide into.

[Dogg Thang]

You write "other than" and then follow it with something that, actually, makes the entire thing unique. Other than being able to play great looking games and whatever media they play, the PS5 and XBox really have nothing to offer. The "other than" thing really doesn't work. And in the case of the Switch, the numbers back it up. Thing is, if you want a PS5 or XBox-like machine, I have absolutely wonderful news for you: the PS5 and whatever XBox we're on now are on sale right now. On the other hand, if you wanted a Switch-like machine, there is only one of those available. Steam Deck will change all that of course but I don't think the Nintendo brand has much to be concerned about there, as much as I think Steam Deck will be a hit.

Edit: just to wrap up my own view so I don’t have to keep coming back to it (for my own mental well-being and yours!), what this is like is coming into a Red Bull thread every six months and arguing that it should taste like Coke and Pepsi. Or coming into a Nando’s thread and saying their food should be like McDonalds and Burger King. It’s misunderstanding completely what their market actually is and how they have carved their own niche while suggesting they should position themselves as just another one of something that is already very well served with clear market leaders. Drink Coke. Eat McDs. They’re all good. And it doesn’t mean Nando’s don’t have stuff to fix but it won’t happen by flipping burgers. Nintendo are fundamentally different and, overall, it has worked for them. They have an incredibly strong brand.

[Neon Ignition]

I guess that's the thing, that to a large extent with the Switch the only unique element is that it's a handheld and that Nintendo made a popular handheld, in retrospect, shouldn't be surprising. Likewise I guess the narrative has long been that handhelds are a declining market so in the long, long term it's whether Nintendo can maintain that success versus the more forward thinking rivals. But again, I'm more arguing from a historical sense. In the here and now Switch makes perfect sense for them, if time could be rewritten they absolutely should have taken the traditional console strategy and not messed up the N64, Cube and WiiU repeating the same mistakes